Note to repeat visitors to this post -- I've started a new post called "Solving San Jose's Little Saigon Controversy" in hopes of getting some solutions to the bickering and intrigue that have created this impasse. We have great ideas and have amassed lots of knowledge, so let's put to good use!
If you've had your ears to the ground in the Vietnamese-American community in the last few months, you've probably heard about how San Jose is struggling to come up with a moniker for a strip of Story Road near the intersection with McLaughlin. That corridor of Story is in the southern part of the city where there's a concentration of Vietnamese businesses. At the heart of the matter is what to name the area: "Little Saigon" or "Saigon Business District."
The area (District 7) is represented on the San Jose City Council by Madison Nguyen, the first Vietnamese-American woman elected to office in California. Madison supported and voted for Saigon Business District, which was also the City Council's choice.
However, a small but very vocal group of Vietnamese Americans wants the name "Little Saigon" and have been showing up on Tuesdays at City Hall to protest and demand that Madison resign or face a recall election. Initially, they hit her low by accusing her of being connected to communist Vietnam. Then they said that she voted in an undemocratic way because her vote did not represent the will of the Vietnamese community. Now they're calling her a liar.
The arguments from each side are:
- "Little Saigon" properly acknowledges the former capital of South Vietnam and is a stab to the heart of the post-1975 communist regime.
- "Saigon Business District" honors the former capital and avoids a politically charged name.
I'm not a San Jose resident but rather, live nearby and read the San Jose Mercury News paper, which has diligently reported on the story from the beginning. Here's how I weigh in on this issue:
The area in question is puny, though there is a construction project underway for a large shopping plaza, there isn't much there there. The strip of Story Road that's on the table neglects the area at Tully and South King, which is a 5-minute drive away and loaded with eateries and shops. What about those businesses?
It's not all Viet all the time at Story Road. Turn your head ever so lightly and you'll see a taqueria, tamale shop, and Thai-Vietnamese-Chinese market.
Little Saigon? I grew up in Orange County, where the first and biggest "Little Saigon" is and frankly, have always disliked the name. The 405 Freeway sign near the exit often make me feel uncomfortable. Moreover, inside the O.C. Viet community, the area is called it "Bolsa" after the main drag, where it is indeed, all Viet, all the time.
Saigon was never and is not little. For me, the name "Little Saigon" is pejorative and denotes something that's quaint, small, and not particularly powerful. Vietnam has a rich and long history of having kicked plenty of ass. Yes, we're relatively small in geographic size and population, but we've historically been major players. Remember the geopolitics over the Vietnam War? At one point in Vietnam's history, it was called Dai Viet, which means great Viet. Little Saigon? Please…
Northern vs. Southern California? Is there a bit of competition between San Jose and Westminster? In Westminster, when you turn the corner at Brookhurst and drive down Bolsa, you know you're in an unusual place. The signage is Vietnamese and there is a seemingly endless supply of strip malls full of Vietnamese business - from markets, to restaurants, bakeries, delis, accountants, pharmacies, fabric shops, travel agents, dentists, etc. It's vibrant and pulsating with action.
San Jose's Vietnamese community developed in a much more low-key manner because things are generally more mainstreamed in Northern California. There are more Viet restaurants outside of the Story Road area than in it because people up here are open to mixing and commingling. That's just starting to happen in the O.C., where the community has been insular for the most part.
What I'm saying is don't copy the O.C., but do something that's new, different, and reflective of the community, which has grown and developed differently than that in Southern California.
You can't always get what you want in a democracy. Just because Madison Nguyen didn't vote the way a group of Vietnamese Americans wanted does not mean that she acted undemocratically. In fact, District 7 is full of Latino residents too.
If Madison were to be run out of office, there's no assurance that another Vietnamese-American will be elected to represent that district on the city council. Replacing her is not going to do anything. Coming up with a better, more suitable name would be a better place to start. If one of the names can deliver consistently good restaurants and clean markets, I'll be all for it!
Weigh in yourself on this matter. You don't have to be Viet to have an opinion!
For more information:
- [3/9/08] Solving San Jose's Little Saigon Controversy is a new thread I started because this one was getting really long. Also, we need solutions to end the bickering.
- 8Asians.com blog has a detailed comment thread on this political saga
- 1/15/08 Madison Nguyen's political trajectory and potential downfall: The Rise, Troubles of Madison Nguyen [Again, the SJ Mercury is doing an unscientific online poll of whether or not she should resign. Reader/community comments are quite insightful.]
- 1/8/08 story from SJ Mercury News: "An Ultimatum for Madison Nguyen" [Note, you can vote on whether she should be recalled and leave a comment)
- 12/03/07 SJ Mercury News editorial on recalling Madison Nguyen
San Jose Voters Against Spanish-Inquisition Democracy says
If you let anyone from that "San Jose Voters For Democracy" group read this article, you will find yourself branded as a communist almost immediately, quicker than you can say "democracy".
Andrea Nguyen says
Branding someone as a communist is a below-the-belt, cheap trick. Democracy is about preserving the rule of the majority and protecting the voices of the minority.
SJ resident says
I've grown up in SJ between those stretches of Tully and Story Road. Thank you for a well written piece on this matter.
Nate says
It's too bad that these people feel they've been offended and let down so much that they want to remove their representative from office. If only they could channel their energy and commitment into more positive actions and working to improving the city. Actions such as reducing gang violence, staffing youth outreach programs, or building businesses and creating jobs.
I understand a lot of people have hard feelings about what happened to them in the "old country". But what binds a community t
Lili says
Andrea,
I totally agree with everything that you've written. As a proud Vietnamese woman, I detest the term "little", and consider "Little Saigon" insulting and patronizing. I have a feeling that this a small dissenting group. They certainly don't represent me. And I hope that Madison Nguyen knows that there are plenty of people who support her decision. And yes, I live in San Jose.
Annie says
If these people can refer to Madison Nguyen as a Communist for choosing a professional and non-cheesy sounding name for that a commerce center, don't know what they would call me (and many others) for being married to a white man.
Andrea Nguyen says
The fact is that the south part of San Jose where Vietnamese and Latino business commingle is in need of economic revitalization. Yes, Nate, there are people who harbor lots of bitter resentment over the past. I don't blame them. On the other hand, we are in the United States and you need to leave some of the past behind in order to move forward.
I don't want to move back to Vietnam, and I'm sure most other Vietnamese Americans don't either.
Thanks, ALL OF YOU, for your thoughtful comments.
Diane says
What timing, my father and I had a very similar, heated discussion just the other day.I've told him (and many others ) that I was concerned about the passion and emotion that some active Vietnamese groups convey during their protests. Worst yet, labeling someone a "communist" just because they don't agree with you is selfish, irresponsible, bullying and a sign of weakness. It's happening so often now within our Vietnamese community that calling someone a "communist" has become a childish "copy
Andrea Nguyen says
In regular American vernacular, the "C" word means something else. For Viet-Americans, it might as well be just as terrible of an insult.
Marrying out of your race and ethnicity is commonly seen as 'selling out.' But are you suppose to marry someone just because he/she is Vietnamese? Are they apt to really have a better sense of who you are? Does that mean that a wife is suppose to look beautiful all the time, have children, cook, clean, and keep a profitable career going? Should the husband act
Diane says
You put it exactly, Andrea. Unfortunately, those who are so quick to judge and use insults as "communist" & "selling out" close themselves out to so many possibilities, exchange of ideas, and the bettering of themselves and their community. Ironically, there are many "sellouts" like myself who are spreading the love of my Vietnamese culture, food & traditions. These other people can spend their time fighting communism their way, and I will do the same by spreading and strengthening the joy and
Andrea Nguyen says
It's human to want to maintain a pure genetic/cultural line in a family but in today's global and transitional world, that's hard to do.
How pure is Vietnamese food? What is authentic? How pure is any food? What matters is if it comes from the heart. That goes for food and anything else, for that matter.
So, what does that tell you about the hearts of people who are too quick to label someone a communist or sell out? They're just as mixed up as the rest of us!
Ashley says
Andrea,
Some Vietnamese foods are more authentic than others, starting with the taste. For example, Vietnamese foods that have been westernized tend to be much sweeter. Authentic Vietnamese foods are foods that retain the flavors and ingredients of past generations. I found it odd that you asked, "What is authentic?" As a self-proclaimed expert on Vietnamese food, I think you ought to know. Your question about the authenticity of Vietnamese food sounded as if you want to seem philosophical.
Andrea Nguyen says
Ashley, authenticity is an issue that food people debate all the time. (I'm not just talking Vietnamese food writers.)It's a fleeting idea because how a cook prepares something, say pho, is yes, grounded in certain fundamentals that are generally agreed upon, but then varies according to the cook's local resources and personal taste. So a southern cook may prepare pho broth with daikon, and a northern cook would say that that is 'incorrect' (khong dung). But the southern cook learned that from h
Laura says
Not Vietnamese and not Californian, but personally I think resorting to calling someone a Communist (or a Fascist or a Nazi or...) is dirty and low ball. It pretty much makes me tune out whatever the speaker is saying.
Anonymous says
I've been searching the web trying to find out the truth of "Little Saigon" problem and finally I found your group. I read many different posts but only your post gave me a different view to the problem
I don't like the vocal Vietnamese group who supports the "Little Saigon" name and never participated in their activities since most of their protest just make me sick. Nevertheless, I didn't hate them but rather feel empathy and sorry for them who must have been suffered from the war and probably
Andrea Nguyen says
Welcome Anonymous! Thanks for your thoughtful comments -- and the link to John Vu's detailed posting. I read the entire thing and though he shows a certain level of bias, you can filter through that and get at how things developed since last summer. To read responses to John's comments, see the 8Asians blog link in the original posting at the top.
Here are my thoughts...
First, I had an inkling that something somewhere was related to the Vietnam Town shopping center that still has a billboard si
Von Griffing says
Wow, nothing like the power of words, in this case the nuance of words to evoke such strong emotions. I'm on Team Madison on this one. Saigon District sounds modern and progressive. Little Saigon just sounds stale and trite. I commend the protesters for being vocal and passionate about their cause but yeesh! couldn't they focus their energy on something more constructive and not so tedious?
As far as the comment regarding what is 'authentic' Vietnamese food, to me that is like asking what c
Andrea Nguyen says
Von, Thanks for your comments. Yes, sometimes the tuong sauce is plenty thick so no need for the cornstarch thickener, especially if you use peanut butter.
Love it that though we discuss public policy and community issues here that we always bring it back to food.
Kristina says
Thanks Andrea for your post on this. Having moved from Southern California to Washington, DC- I had not heard this news.
As a young person involved in politics, I always looked around the room at political events and am saddened to see the small numbers of Asian Americans, especially women and Vietnamese in particular. However, when I heard about Madison's election as the first Vietnamese-American politician in CA, I was proud. And now to think that now people are trying to recall her over this
Andrea Nguyen says
Kristina, the character attacks against Madison Nguyen that were posted on the SJ Mercury News comments on this issue reflect how you really can't please people! If you're on someone's 'hit' list, they'll find a way to frame you as a bad person. In Madison's case, the "communist" insult gets twisted in many directions. If people don't like what she's doing, they need to articulate their position in an effective (read: rational) manner that the public can understand.
Though I'm a Trojan, I'm deli
Zach says
I find your article a bit bias. First of all, I live in San Jose and I am actually one of the volunteers that work for the city to go out and poll the residence of District 7. From your article, you wrote "a small but very vocal group of Vietnamese Americans wants the name 'Little Saigon'"...this is in fact not correct. Yes, the vocal group that stands outside of City Hall to protest against Madison is small, but the number of people who prefers the name Little Saigon over Saigon Business Distri
Andrea Nguyen says
Zach, Why is it wrong to be a bit biased or even biased? People are entitled to have their opinions. It's part of the blogosphere. Given that, I'm delighted that you've joined the conversation.
I've not seen the raw data on the polls that the city of of San Jose took on the name. The figure of 90% has been mentioned on many occasions, but not the number of actual respondents and their breakdown in terms of race, age, and ethnicity.
Politicians are responsible to many constituent groups and it se
Teresa says
>Vietnam has a rich and long history of having kicked plenty of ass. Yes, we're relatively small in geographic size and population, but we've historically been major players.
Thank you for pointing this out. It was one of the most striking things to me as I started studying Vietnam more closely, before and while living there. Small and mighty, that's how I see it.
As for the naming controversy, I can't really say anything (being non-Viet and all), but I always think it's interesting how people
Andrea Nguyen says
Teresa -- Small and mighty. I like that. It's good to have discussion about this matter.
Anonymous says
I think we had magnified this issue more than it should be. Many peoples stated that they wanted a name "Little Saigon" because it reminds us how we lost our country..Yeah, I am for that but it is necessarily for us to wasted that much energy to fight over a name. Let's think about this for a second. Does fighting over a name help put food on a table for poor/orphanage kid in Vietnam? Instead of going out there and protest for a shopping center name, shouldn't we be using that energy and focus
Andrea Nguyen says
That is really a good point -- how to spend limited resources: time. Now, the city will put the name thing up as a city-wide ballot measure that's going to cost $214,000 to implement. That's a good use of money, huh?
Andy says
Saigon was once part of Cambodia and occupied by the Khmer people, until the Vietnamese moved in from the north and took it over and gave it its "current" (before 75) name. There is something to be said for naming an overseas VNese hangout with a name that would bring back good memory and nostalgia, but to call someone names (communist) or to be filled with anger and bitterness because of it begs some re-thinking. And if SJ was to spend 200k to put it on the ballot, would that be a wise use of
Andrea Nguyen says
Andy, thanks for your thoughtful post. Good luck with the work in Vietnam. We are a squabbly lot and that can be to our own detriment.
tony says
Saigon Business District meaning former city or meaning HO CHI MINH city district ?????
andy says
Andrea, thank you. Interesting blog you have here. Believe it or not, I found it not beccause I was looking for cooking tips but out of a search for the word "Saigon." A little bit of social issues seasoning into the blog drew an audience! While a few are squabbling and quibbling over the designation "Little Saigon," you are covering a large "Yue" area with the designation Viet World. Success to you!
Andrew says
It has a lot to do with the lack of compromise from Madison Nguyen for her not choosing the name Little Saigon Business District at the suggestion of other councilmember as someone points out, and the way she deal with the Little Saigon supporters. This group is far bigger than a small vocal group like Madison Nguyen and Chuck Reed said and it has the support of many prominent Vietnamese Americans in the city and accross America. These people feel very strongly that she snubbed them and the Viet
Andrea Nguyen says
Tony, you should be a bit more explicit.
Andrew, indeed, Madison Nguyen and Chuck Reed should have handled this issue with more political finesse. This issue may bring the San Jose Viet community down if it is not resolved well.
dontpanic says
Andrea, I don't have a problem with "Saigon Bussiness District" name since the name has its own meaning. However, I recently read an article from the New york time it said: a "Web site of the Communist Party in Vietnam that announced that San Jose would establish a Vietnamese Business District.”
I feel sad and shocked when I read that. Does the compromise mean taking Vietnamese word out and replace by Saigon one. Sorry, I can not hide my conscience on this matter even sometime I try to ignore
Andrea Nguyen says
Davis, This situation is a complex one and the New York Times piece is the only one where I've seen (I may be wrong on this) the open mention of people caving in to the communist party for development purposes. Whenever I read the news, I read between the lines and consider the source. This is what was printed in the New York Times piece you cite:
Others say that wealthy developers and business people influenced the decision not to call the area Little Saigon, worried that is was too politically
dontpanic says
Hi Andrea, I hope you're right and thanks for sharing your thought here. The problem seems getting worse now. There is no wining or loosing any more. I think all of us are the looser, and I don't know if someone can find a reasonable solution to end this ugly thing. I don't like the "hunger strike"
-davis
Andrea Nguyen says
Davis, it's a total mess. Mr. Ly Tong's hunger strike seems inappropriate for this situation. He's a showman and knows how to work a crowd.
duy tran says
i think we have to consider that vietnamese americans arent the only ones living in san jose. i live in san jose myself and do feel that saigon business district is better then little saigon. i have personal reasons for it but i also have talked to a lot of vietnamese and non vietnamese people of the city of san jose and they all prefer saigon business district. the only people i have not found to like this is usually the older generations and the older generations do have a hard hand when thing
Trina Nguyen says
You haven't seen the evidence on this matter, Andrea. There is a mountain of evidence of public corruption and, yes, even involvement from the totalitarian regime from Vietnam. Just wait and see. As an artist I understand the power of symbolisms. Little Saigon is a symbol of the struggle for basic human rights for Vietnam. (Why is the Most Venerable Thich Quang Do still under house arrest after 30 years of imprisonment?) It would be quite a blow to Viet American human rights activists if t
Andrea Nguyen says
I wouldn't compare Thich Quang Do's situation to the situation in San Jose. That would seem rather insulting to him.
As for the evidence, I've been waiting for it to be released -- the connection with the developer. Looks like it may have come out today.
http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_8429927
Whatever that happens in this situation, the Vietnamese American community in San Jose will take a hit. Bear in mind that there are a whole lot of people out there who reside in the district. It's not all Vi
HP says
It makes me laugh so hard when the Little Saigon supporters saying that Little Saigon is anti-communist .All they are around and around the corner of the street .That is how they say " anti-communist " .
They used to be soldiers fighting vc .Now they are girly to fight for ......the name with a lot of BS.Get out of my sight .
Katelyn says
Hi Andrea...love the tips on your site. I've been following this Little Saigon debate and here are my two cents. Yes, I agree with you that we have magnified this issue and made it bigger than what's necessary. However, come to think about it, don't blame the protesters for that, but who started this in the first place? It started as something very simple, what to name the strip on Story Road. If Madison already had a name in mind (originally she wanted Vietnam Town and then changed to SBD), the
Ha Tran says
I am honor and very happy to have a street name that contains Saigon, Vietnamese Largest City. Does it matter if it is Little Saigon, Saigon District, or Saigon Business? No, it is just opinion. No one is right or wrong. For us to fight over the slight difference between the two names is out of control...let's focus our energy on more important issues, such as poverty, human rights, etc....
Thank you Andrea for your insights. And hopefully, one of us will be at the Tuesday meeting to tell i
Andrea Nguyen says
Katelyn, Thanks for the first-hand account and insights on yesterday's City Hall protest. I was wondering where and how they got 2,5000 Viet-Americans to come to protest. It's great that so many people turned out, but if the majority of the participants came from out of town, then the general public perception is -- why didn't the local Viet-community turn out in greater numbers. Politics, as the current presidential election is showing, depends a lot of public perception.
The "Vietnam Town" sho
Andrea Nguyen says
Ha, I know...it would be nice to have a named area. It would be nicer if the area was robust. I've visited a number of "Little Saigons" in the United States and San Jose deserves much much more than what it currently has. People should move beyond the name to address the issue of why there aren't more businesses in the corridor.
Katelyn says
Hi Andrea..I think you misread my post. The majority of the people who came to yesterday's rally was NOT from out of town. It is extremely sad to see things turn this way...I wish there was a compromise between the two sides, and the best compromise would be call it Little Saigon Business District. But the question is, that has been brought up to Madison, yet why is she so stubborn about it? Could it be because she single-handedly came up with the name Saigon Business District herself and she w
Katelyn says
Oh by the way Andrea, to answer your question why the strip on Tully Road is not being included, it might be because soon we won't have a Lion Plaza anymore...the landlord is thinking of taking back the land and build estates. This is still in the air though but might have contributed to why they chose Story over Tully.
Ha Tran says
You can do a lot of things to show you are anti-communists. However, fighting for a name and not a cause would only causes disrespect toward the Vietnamese Community.
I respected Ly Tong for his past bravery. But for a name, he is willing to starve, is too childish. A hero should not die for a name, but die for a cause.
Madison didn't do a good job explaining to those people regarding the name...but that doesn't deserve to be recalled. If you don't like her, then you don't vote for her the n
Andrea Nguyen says
Katelyn, I did misread your comments because it seems like you were implying that many of the protesters were out of towners.
Councilwoman Madison Nguyen is learning a lot from this experience and it will be interesting to see what happens next. I have no idea what her personal life is like and I don't think it's my business who she marries. District 7 elected her and supported her. Voters had every chance to check her out. She may not be doing her job with enough political finesse because she'
Lori Dinh says
The issue here is clearly cultural insensitivity. Little Saigon, to many, represents the reasons why many Vietnamese are here. They acknowledge that Saigon is gone and that they have to start anew.
I did not understand the issue either having been born and raised in Texas. But after speaking with my parents, I understand the issue.
For a city which boasts cultural diversity, San Jose city council has displayed their cultural insensitivity.
It is indeed a silly matter, but nonetheless, why not gi
Katelyn says
I agree with Lori. Madison and her suppporters bring it up again and again that there is a SILENT majority who wants SG Business District. However, with the issue getting this heated, if they don't speak up by now, obviously that name to them is not all that significant nor do they care about the issue. Usually these are the young generations or business people who rather spend time to make money rather than bickering over a name. But for a group of people, majority the older folks, a name me
Ha Tran says
I totally agree with C. Andrea Nguyen! 🙂 Awesome!
Andrea Nguyen says
And, finally -- some numbers... the San Jose Mercury News mentioned today in a piece on the mayor's problems that the San Jose city redevelopment agency sent out 1,136 surveys last August 2007 asking people near the district (e.g., the Story Road area) what it should be called. Only 117 people responded, and of those, 44 wanted "Little Saigon."
The mayor said they should have stopped there and done more outreach, but they didn't. Very unfortunate.
So it seems that in the initial opportunity, not
Andrea Nguyen says
Ladies, when you spend public money (a limited resource), you have to take into consideration the interests of the many people who paid their taxes.
To say that the city is being culturally insensitive and that only Vietnamese people ought to get a say in the naming of the 1-mile stretch of Story Road is -- well, isn't that also being culturally insensitive? We live in America, not Vietnam, not Saigon. Vietnamese people do not live in isolation here.
Most Vietnamese-Americans do not want to move
Amy says
Hi Andrea. How are you? If we are mentioning numbers, then let's take into consideration the first Tuesday meeting back in November to pick the name. From 800-1000 people showed up to City Hall, but only a handful of people spoke up for Saigon Business District, the rest for Little Saigon. At that moment, they should already know what holds the majority. Why then Saigon Business District prevailed at the meeting?
Michelle says
Dear all,
To the most recent poster...there is significance in a name. It's called symbolism. People have died in the name of symbolism.
First off, I want to commend Andrea for this wonderful site. I am a total foodie and I love the fact that others are enriched by the Vietnamese culture, especially our food. I think everyone's comments have been very thoughtful thus far...granted a little biased (to be expected considering this is an individual’s blog). While I may concede with some of t
Amy says
At yesterday's council meeting in hope to come up with the resolution to this issue, 300 people from both sides lined up for their 1-minute speech to persuade the council why their name should be chosen. That was also the first time the group in support of Madison called Our Voice spoke before the council. Both sides also submitted a list of signatures. The Our Voice group submitted 800 signatures in support of Madison. Mr. Barry Hung Do submitted 4000 signatures in support of Little Saigon.
Zach says
Can somebody please explain to me if the council does not have a hidden agenda, why is it that they are refusing to adopt the name Little Saigon after we show them again and again that's the majority vote? Why should it only be for the business owners? Businesses survive thanks to the customers, without customers, they will just be empty restaurants and shops. A business district strive due to tourists....without tourists, it'll be a dead town. So once again, why is it the voting of the name is
Ha Tran says
We fight over a name...luckily, not every names in United States are fought because we will be so busy fighting names that we would have forgotten the most important issues, human rights, poverty, etc. My sister brought a proposition I made to work, regarding "we should be honor and happy to have an area named after Saigon, Vietnamese Largest City...than to waste energy fighting over the slight difference between the names...to move on with this issue" (we are the neutral group) and in only one
Andrea Nguyen says
Hello everyone,
Thanks for all the thoughtful comments and reports on the council meeting last night. A number of things are clear...one of which is that there were grave missteps on all sides.
Naming ethnic areas of cities is a feel good kind of thing for city government and this has totally gone downhill. The public is getting tired and weary, and it would have benefited from the early onset, from some of the vary articulate comments posted on this site. There are strange things about those su
M K Pham says
This is my first time to this site. Kudos, Andrea! Very nice forum for everything Viet from food to the more political matters. I do live in San Jose, and some of our family members have very deep feelings for the Little Saigon issue. My feeling is this: there is a constituancy harboring very deep, very strong emotions connected to the name Little Saigon. Granted, not everyone shares this, but we've all got to admit, MANY share this point of view. In any relationship, there has to be give and ta
Ha Tran says
Pham is right that “Little Saigon” means a lot to their proponents. I understand. I would have supported them even though I think Saigon Business District is a stronger name. However, the ways they go about trying to achieve the name give the wrong message...their tactics lose sympathy from the San Jose community.
1. Threaten to recall a council member if they don’t get the name!!!
2. Hunger Strike!!!!
If Little Saigon is accepted, these proponents think their tactics are correct and
Zach says
Do I believe Madison is a Communist? No I don't. But do I believe there's a hidden agenda involved not just with Madison but possibly with the city of San Jose? Yes, I do.
It started out with a political campaign between Madison Nguyen and Linda Nguyen for the seat in the city council. Both made promises that once elected, there will be a strip with a Vietnamese name to honor our contributions. Madison won the race and yes, she did keep her word and worked on the strip on Story Road. But this i
Michelle says
Again, I have to thank Andrea for creating a forum where people can have civil and thoughtful discourse on this issue. I think in the end, we all can agree on one thing, we love the Vietnamese culture: its people, culture, food, etc. We all are very fortunate to be in a democratic society where thoughtful and dissenting discourse is encouraged rather than censored. These are the rights that our parents (and those of their generation) have risked their lives to give me and my generation. For
Oanh Nguyen says
Hi all,
This matter is just a type of growing pain as I see it.
If Madison Nguyen wants different name then people at large will be forced to drive for what they want which is "Little Saigon".
The principle of Cause And Effect being observed here. It's very interesting to see what would come out in the long run.
There will be a lesson for someone to learn here and if he/she willing to learn.
civil says
I ask myself a million times "Does Little Saigon is my identity ??"
I can't tell ,huhuhuhuhuhu .I'm not a doctor ,i'm not a lawyer ,i'm not a busboy ,i can't tell .
My Dad told me we came from Qui Nhon city .That's all i know .
Maybe Linda Nguyen and Bary Hung Do can tell me .
Stacy says
Until now, I don't understand the reasonings behind not adopting the name Little Saigon? There doesn't seem to be any problems naming the district Little Saigon in LA, Sacramento, San Francisco etc., why is it such a big deal in San Jose? Perhaps because all those other cities don't have Madison Nguyen as their council representative. Councilwoman Madison Nguyen said that the name didn't go well with business owners because it is too anti-Communist. Is she suggesting that only the business owner
James Nguyen says
In any campaign w/ an overwhelmingly large number of people, not only will you see the moderate part of the spectrum, but you will also get to see the extreme ends of the spectrum. That is, you will see a few individuals w/ extreme views who will radicalize the campaign in the name of Little Saigon. That doesn't mean that the cause is wrong. What about the rest of the people in the middle of the spectrum who support Little Saigon? One needs to look at the big picture and not focus on a bunch of
civil says
Little Saigon supporters are using lies :
a- Little Saigon is the identity of VN refugees .
b- Little Saigon supporters are the majority of SJ Vietnamese community .
c-Little Saigon are favorite name among Vietnames community .
d-Little Saigon supporters are the big group of SJ
e-Ly Tong has been on hunger strike for more than 15 days without sick .
Shouting ,bullying ,manipulating,lying,diry tatic ..ect .. are the backlash for VN community .
The bad picture for Vietnamese community is when Ly
Andrea Nguyen says
Lordy people, rise up and state your opinions! Thank you for contributing more to the discussion. I feel flattered that you've found a space where you can vent and express yourselves.
As Oanh points out, this is a growing experience for the Vietnamese-American community, and it has aired a lot of dirty laundry, including the divisions of class, age, and anti-communism. The situation gives us pause about what it means to be Viet, and how to best shape our future as a community.
I don't understand
Stacy says
Well Andrea, last I heard that Lap Tang is putting that project on hold until the name he wants get passed. Perhaps that's what the city of San Jose is afraid of, if they choose the name Little Saigon, Lap Tang will not invest in Vietnam Town anymore, and therefore city loses money from tax revenues etc. Once again....money talks.
Here's the latest news I want to share with all of you because some of you don't live in San Jose. Out of the 800 signatures submitted by Madison's supporters, they cl
Michelle says
Wow! I was so moved by all the comments on this blog. Kudos to Andrea to attracting passionate individuals on both sides of this debate. It certainly feels like a nice "coffee break" to share our thoughts on this issue. Stacy, thank you for your very eloquent response. I couldn't have said it better myself. Civil, you have a right to your opinion and the LS supporters are entitled to theirs. As for whether you're from Qui Nhon (I am from Binh Duong btw) or Saigon, that's not what the issu
Thanh says
To the author, I think what you are using "is a stab to the heart of the post-1975 communist regime" is too much!!! I am a SJ resident but not in district 7. I think the name with 2 words "Little SaiGon" (such as Little SaiGon Business District is the best). After this event, this shows Madison Nguyen is not good at politics. The matter didn't seem to be a big deal. Now, it is a mess. Her reasons and the way she is trying to solve this issue are not good enough. She is the only vietnamese coucil
civil says
Little saigon supporters always think that Madison Nguyen has to do everything for them .
Learn to spell d-i-s-c-r-i-m-i-n-a-t-i-o-n .
Stacy says
Civil, your comments are filled wtih sarcasms and sadly most of the time, without any proof to back yourself up.
The main question is: If the name Little Saigon is chosen, is there any harm to the Vietnamese community?
The way I look at it, most people agree that they are not against the name Little Saigon, they are just against the protests. So if there's a strip named Little Saigon, I assume then people will still welcome it with open arms. Business will go as normal, the community will calm d
civil says
Stacy ,you miss my line .I mean Madison Nguyen can't be allowed herself to discriminate in public service .That's the law ,no assumption .
James Nguyen says
To those who still insist that the Little Saigon are the minority:
FACT: The City council stated in the substitute motion passed on 3/4/08 that:
"[The council] recognizes the widespread support for the name ‘Little Saigon’ in the broader Vietnamese-American community, and expresses its appreciation to the thousands of people who have spoken out and expressed their views on this subject."
Even the SJ city admits that the majority accepts Little Saigon.
Stop using the 'Silent Majority' argumen
Stacy says
Civil, I think I understand what you are trying to say. Are you trying to say that Madison Nguyen has to work for everyone, not just the Vietnamese people? If so, yes, that is true, but only to a certain extent. When a group votes a person into office, they want that person to represent them and to be their "voice". When the Vietnamese community elected Madison as their representative, they only did so because they think putting a Vietnamese into the seat of city council will trememdously help
Andrea Nguyen says
Stacy and everyone,
Lots of good perspectives today -- especially for a Friday when we should all be out celebrating the end of the week. But there's not much to celebrate with a fractured community.
I think it's a bit strange that Mr. Lap decided to hold off on moving forward with the construction project because of the naming issue. Doesn't the sign on the fence say "coming in 2006"? Maybe there was financial stuff and he wanted to make sure that before he invested more monies into the project
civil says
"Civil, I understand what you're saying. That Madison should be representing all the people in her district. Yep, that's her charge as an elected official. But she also won the votes of many Viet-Am by promising that she'd name that strip of Story. She may be sorry for that now." [Andrean Nguyen]
what if the Latino and the Walmart corp later sue the city hall for naming the business district .Therefore VN community(property business owners ,business leasers and people living in district 7) must
Michelle says
Civil, if I hear you correctly, you're once again questioning whether the Vietnamese American population is the majority in District 7. You're asking that these people show "proof" i.e. SS card, address, etc. I am sorry but this is not communist VN. We don't have "xuc canh" that we're force to carry around to show proof of residence. Yes, we have driver's licenses but in a free society you CANNOT and SHOULD NOT be "forced" to show proof to show legitimacy. I think the numbers that continued
civil says
In district 7 , San Jose California ,the Vietnamese population is 25037 .
In district 7 , San Jose California ,number of resident is 94893 .
US cencus 2005 .
Andrea Nguyen says
Civil, good for you for getting the #'s! So that's less than 1/3 of the district population.
Look, elected officials answer to many constituent groups. One would think that the city and councilwoman would have gotten buy in from Walmart before naming a district something. I've not heard about that kind of thing happening elsewhere, particularly because the naming has normally been in economically depressed areas, like the Tenderloin in SF. If somehow naming a district were to hurt business, I'd
Anonymous says
Madison Nguyen represents the district 7 and also serves the city of San Jose .In district 7 ,she represents for all people regardless of their background .
To name a district business in district 7 ,business property owners are the most motivation to request to name their area .And of course it requires the real people from district 7 to anticipate the process .
The Vietnamese community may be asked to share a part of the pie ,not the whole pie .(please remember the rule to anticipate).But ,Li
Anonymous says
The little Saigon protesters shouted " recall Madison Nguyen" last November 2007 .
Well ,now the date is March/9/2008 .Madison Nguyen's still San Jose council member and she still represents in district 7 .
The Little Saigoners are the group of thugs .Stop using lies .You have nobody in district 7 that supports you .
They ,Little saigoners represent for themselves only .
Andrew Tran says
I'm a LS supporter and need to confirm if indeed Little Saigon is the name of choice and so I create a poll at http://www.votelittlesaigon.com. Please cast your vote at votelittlesaigon and help me in this quest. I love to go in to detail why I personally like "Little Saigon" but then I don't want to impose my point of view and affect your vote. Please be an independent thinker, collect all the variables and data, analyze the situations, put yourself on both side of issue, then make your descision w
Ha Tran says
You can list all the things that Madison did, but it all boils down to a name...yes, you can use your "recall" power, but because of a name, you use it...the next time when you really want to use for an important issue, it is as effective. One should always look at the overall performance of an individual instead of just a name. And the reason why I said "bully", because a group of people tries to "recall" a person just because of a name...and nothing more important than a name (and a name is b
Ha Tran says
I forgot the word "not" in the sentence "the next time when you really want to use for an important issue, it is "not" as effective.
Anonymous says
Right and the other 96,000 are the 'silent majority' who conveniently support Madison Nguyen's vendetta against Little Saigon. How convenient!
I have a feeling that this 'silent majority' argument is just smoke being blown up my ass by the few who have some financial gain in this whole fiasco. There's much as stake here, otherwise why would a small group of businessmen and politicians be so adamantly against Little Saigon?
If this naming issue keeps dragging on, there's going to be a lot of sk
civil says
Well ,the identity of Vietnamese refugees in San Jose seems to be ......2500 in 94000 Vietnamese population .That's 2.66% saying yes .Your tongue should be cut in hell .Common Hung Do ,where's the fact sheet ?????
Zach says
Civil, if you're going to do math, you have to do it both ways and do it correctly. Let's see:
Little Saigon: 4000 signatures/94,000 population = 4.17%
Madison's supporters: 800/94,000= 0.85%
Who's tongue should be cut in hell now? 'Cmon Madison's supporters, where's the fact sheet? Don't give me that silent majority BS, you know it's not going to fly.
Ha, if it's just a name, why is the council so stubborn? If it's just a name, why do the council let it escalate to this? If it's just a name, an
civil says
San Jose Voters for Democracy : 2500 (loud vocal count)
Residents of San Jose : more 1 million .(silently count)
I have cracked my jaw because I've laughed out loud .
Michelle says
Civil, I am sorry but a lot of your comments have been ignorant and just plain rude. I’ll refrain from dignifying some of your comments with a response because I think the others on here (Zach) have done a wonderful job. I concur with much of what was said. It seems like the pot is calling the kettle black when you have LS opponents labeling people as "bullies" and "radicals." That's kind of hypocritical if you ask me. Both sides on this issue have had “representatives” that have cond
Anonymous says
Alright I'm going to settle this naming issue right now.
I support Little Saigon and I represent the 'Silent Majority' because he just told me during our coffee break that he supports Little Saigon. He recently lost his voice and couldn't speak up. He just wants to let you know that he's getting better for those whose worrying.
So I guess the 4000 passionate LS supporters + the 95000 'Silent Majority' LS supporters = 99000 LS supporters
I think that the 99000 LS supporters definitely outnumber
Anonymous says
2500 (loud vocal count): have tried to bring down Reed and Nguyen, the leaders of San Jose city .
1 000 000 (silently count): waiting the damage has been done .
All the larger society see among Little Saigon in San Jose leadership are jackals howling at each prey before they rip it to shreds .
Nobody says
Want to know why a lot of people support little Saigon?
http://www.vietnamdaily.com/
For people who can't read Viet this website has some too..
http://www.vietvungvinh.com/
Listen/Read both sides. The thing that Madison Ng., Chuch Reed and other people did are questionable.
I wasn't a "Little Saigon" supporter but I'm thinking about going to the meeting tomorrow night to support for the name Little Saigon.
Andrea Nguyen says
Everyone,
What a raucous conversation this has turned out to be. You've all got your passionate perspectives and yes, do find a way to make them count. If you LIVE in San Jose, particularly District 7, consider writing a letter to the mayor and city council. This is a local issue, funded by local tax dollars, and in that regard, should be decided by locals. Take a survey to assess opinion. The online survey that's been put up at
votelittlesaigon.com
is a worthy effort. My only question there is
John Vu says
Pandemonium at City Hall
John Vu
At the council meeting on March 4, 2008, after more than 6 long hours of listening to over 400 hundred people asking for the name Little Saigon, Councilmember Nguyen put forth a motion to rescind all votes on November 20, 2007 and June 5, 2007 items. She said:” I want to have a clean slate”. Mayor Chuck Reed agreed:” I do not want to have the June 5 item be tainted with the association with the communist government in VN. The November 20 vote is also tainte
Loc says
Andrea, why did you say the name "Little Saigon" makes you "uncomfortable" every time you drive by that exit sign on the 405? Why does it make you "uncomfortable?" Were there some of your white friends accompanying you in the car? Are you ashamed of the name Little Saigon because you feel ashamed of your own heritage? I know a lot of Vietnamese who are ashamed of being Vietnamese and they'll go out of their way to dissociate themselves with anything having to do with Vietnam, with Vietnamese peo
James Nguyen says
Bravo Loc! You bring up very good points. I enjoyed reading your post. It reminds me of my life.
I went through a phase in life when I did everything I could to disassociate myself from anything that had to do with Vietnam. But this was during elementary school when I first came over in the late 80s and was trying to assimilate into the American culture. I admit that back then I hated being a Vietnamese.
However, I found my true self in college and became very interested in my Vietnamese he
Andrea Nguyen says
Loc,
I don't appreciate your lack of thoroughly reading the posts on this blog thread, which began 2 months ago. As I say in the original posting, Vietnam is not "little" because it's a country with a long history of having kicked a lot of ass. I even suggest naming the area Dai Viet District, which heralds back the 10th century when Vietnam had secured independence and named itself Dai Viet (Great/Big Viet) -- a reflection of how I perceive and interpret the country.
So read a little deeper bef
civil says
Without the name "Little Saigon" ,the protsters feel they don't have democracy in San Jose .They've demanded the San Jose city hall to give democracy for San Jose Voters .I laugh myself into fits .
Everything the Little Saigoners said ,it makes me think i am living in Africa .
Zach says
Loc, welcome to the discussion and you've brought up some good points about Vietnamese people should be proud of who they are but I don't think it's fair you attack Andrea to back up your point. If you read back on my posts, you will see that I disagree with Andrea on her POV of the word "little", however, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Some people who look into the issue from just the outside, they question why the word "little" is so important given the definition of the word. I don't
Ha Tran says
Andrea Nguyen, don't be sad by Loc's comments. I respect your website and thoughts. Loc needs help being a gentleman and learn how to look at the "big" picture. If he was a gentleman, he would just ask the first question and leave it there instead of making more questions that are very demeaning. I think his first paragraph says it all...accusations, accusations, accusations...how can anybody respect him with that kind of questions???
long nguyen says
Andrea Nguyen,
Please do more research about what is going in the sanjose city about little Saigon right now before pointing out your comnent.
chomideonnoro says
Hallo everybody. By chance barged into this site and understood that finally got there, where it is nece
ssary
dinh rean says
city donot wast 300.000 for ballot . Only distric 7 with about 10.000 vote cost only 10.000
Why Madison Nguyen hiding her wedding party ?
when she said all vietnamese be on her side , What problem you donot want your poeple cheer your happy day.
dinh tran says
In vietnam We have sentense
Women never pee over top grass
So you lady just shut up
Vu says
I thought this blog was about cooking? But since Andrea you've decided to pull in a political and controversial issue in it, then attack the LS supporters, don't be surprised if they attack you back.
My suggestions along with others are for you to make more research instead of making bias statements in a out of subject, out of focus blog.
I was looking for some recipes, and I ended up in a "politico.andreanguyen.blog" what's with that?
Besides, if you really want to make an opinion, I would sugg
Anonymous says
People please dont' trip over the name. I know that we are anti-communists but that doesn't mean we have to call everything "little saigon." I come from a family that resent communists but this naming has nothing to do with it. I don't like how old people keep walking around with the flag and start tagging everything communists just because they don't like how it's done. We need to make the vietnamese strong, by coming up something that is unique and powerful.
Please people (super anticommunists
Anonymous says
Truth bitter for sure
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marlon says
The chinese people have Chinatown everywhere they go and the Vietnamese people just want the same.
marlon says
The chinese people have Chinatown everywhere they go and the Vietnamese people just want the same.
Mr. Cooking Grill says
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Mr Bill says
If Vietnamese want to mark their own territory then there should be a Irish town, German Town, Black Town, Little Mexico, Little India.. That's NOT how this country operates. You can assimilate together but when you designate it as a Vietnamese turf. That's a mistake. I want all references of Little Saigon removed.