Well, we've got a raging conversation going on about the City of San Jose's Little Saigon (now called shorthand LS) naming issue. The comment thread is full of great stuff, numbers, gossip, and lots of well-thought out discourse. Okay, there's a little screaming but it's more like a coffee klatch/cocktail party.
It's an impasse, with hunger striker Ly Tong giving up water, and lots of numbers being tossed around.
The City of San Jose is coming up a wee short on leadership in this matter or maybe it's gotten itself between a rock and a hard place. In any event, I'm posing this question to those of you who are invested in what the 1-mile strip of Story Road should be called:
How should the City of San Jose resolve this impasse?
Let's put our brains together and pose feasible solutions!
Ha Tran says
I think we should have a poll with 4 options to choose from regarding a name for Story Road Area for Vietnamese American in San Jose: 1. Little Saigon, 2. Saigon Business District, 3. As long as it has Saigon in it, 4. Don't Care. Somehow, this has to be regulated...no cheating. Based on the number of counts, we would determine the name. If Don't Care has the most vote, then let the business folks decide. If the "As long as it has Saigon in it" has the most vote, then let the council mem
thanh says
Let the people of district 7 vote on the name , given in multiple choices , among which should include Little Saigon and Saigon Business District or no name at all. This would be the fairest and most democratic. Nobody can complain of "No Democracy" in San Jose. End of the story.
Let 's put it to rest. So trivial a matter magnified and blown out of proportion.
Andrea Nguyen says
Thank you two. Your comments set us on the right path!
J. Nguyen says
We should have an official RDA survey that surveys all the people affected by the name. After the survey is done, we should make sure that the results are legitimate by doing another survey because the initial survey showed that Little Saigon is #1.
After the second survey shows the same result as the 1st survey, we should have a third party look into possible voting errors (machines, ballots, lost in the mail, whatever you can think of) that may be causing the results to show that the majority
zach says
Name the strip Little Saigon Business District...compromise for all.
James Nguyen says
I second Zach's motion.
Andrea Nguyen says
Zach -- That's brilliant and simple for a name. Excellent.
As for the sampling size, it's been a good decade since my graduate school statistics class but the way the math is done for statistical surveys is that your "N" -- the number of respondents in a survey is rather small relative to the actual population that you're trying to poll. For example, here's a sample size calculator:
http://www.surveysystem.com/sscalc.htm#terminology
If you wanted your results to be +/- 5 percent accurate (which
civil says
Name again .Another fight .Vietnamese people in san Jose must have nothing to do in society .
A- 2500 Little Saigoners must have a lot of time to be in city hall to shout .
B- 1 million residents in San Jose are productive at work .
Zach says
Civil, I've learned to ignore comments like yours.
quang says
Little Saigon Business District is a good compromise.
Regarding Civil 's comment , I found it amusing but somewhat truthful. Those demonstrators sure did not have anything better to do :-((
Anyhow , Vietnamese population in Bay Area is around 250000 , even 7500 people protesting at San Jose City Hall is still a very small number (around 3 %) so to claim that Little Saigon is a overwhelming choice among Vietnamese is really absurd.
There is lots of absurdity and extremism shown so far by the demo
Zach says
Quang, you said there's lots of absurdity and extremism shown by the demonstrators....I think you need to read up on what's been happening. I won't dispute your points here because all your points have already been well disputed in the other post on this site http://www.vietworldkitchen.com/blog/2008/01/little-saigon-c.html so go check that out. The question right now is not how the name should be compromised anymore, but more like will the Little Saigon group forgive and forget and not pres
quang says
Hi Zach ,
Why is it not absurd to impose a name on a group of businesses about their location 's name without their consent ?
Why is it not extreme to threaten somebody 's lives just because they disagree with you?
Why is it not silly to allege communist involvements based on groundless accusations ?
Why is it not absurd to even allege Major Chuck Reed 's being bribed by the commies ?
About Henry Le and Sam Licardo 's dirty involvements here , please show me the proof ?
Sanity and reason , plea
Michelle says
This is a great idea Andrea - a productive way for us all to try put our heads together to move towards a solution. I join Zach is saluting you in doing a wonderful job in spreading the Vietnamese culture through your love for food. While we may not agree on some things I agree that what Loc said was a bit harsh. I get where he/she's coming from and I hold a similar stance, I am very proud of my Vietnamese heritage and take every opportunity I get to share my love of Vietnamese food, culture
Michelle says
Here are some quotes straight from the "horses' mouth" so to speak:
"Based on what I have learned, the document amounts to at least a blatant misrepresentation," Councilman Sam Liccardo said Monday.
Hoping to clarify the ensuing confusion, Liccardo said he had a "frank" conversation with Le over the weekend.
"Henry acknowledged that the signatures were gathered several weeks or months ago, but did not offer a convincing explanation why a March 4 document would be attached to signatures that are
dung says
Michelle,
Your response are not convincing at all.
Please at least try a little harder.
Accusations unproven are considered groundless until proven otherwise.
Chuck Reed's being alleged to have taken bribe and siding with VC had been well known and a topic of frequent attack by these demonstrators unless you have turned a deaf ear.This is a well known fact in Vietnamese community .
Remember this country operates on the prerogative "Innocent until proven guilty" which these protesters seem to con
civil says
People in San Jose will remember the .....fight ,not Little Saigon ,liars .
Zach says
Dung, which part of my comment did I alleged Sam Licardo's dirty involvement? PLEASE QUOTE ME SO I CAN SEE if not, please go back and read it more carefully. It is a known fact that there are charges on only against Henry Le, but also against Sam Liccardo because being a council representative, he did not investigate a document thoroughly before using it in a crucial decision making process. Again, where did I say he's involved in this dirty tactic?
Michelle does not have to try harder to prove
Zach says
Ok let me continue. Groundless is only used when there's no evidence or reasonable doubts.
About Henry Le and Sam Licardo 's dirty involvements here , please show me the proof ?
Once again, show me where I said Sam Licardo is involved in forgery along with Henry Le. Sam Licardo is responsible in a whole new different dimension...incompetentness. Businesses speaking up saying they did NOT sign a petition...that's enough to raise reasonable doubts. For those of you that don't know the laws, there
quang says
Zach , below is your comment copied and pasted
"The question right now is not how the name should be compromised anymore, but more like will the Little Saigon group forgive and forget and not press charges against Sam Licarrdo, Henry Le, among other council members. "
Zach, you don't even remember what you wrote ?
Hello , are you there ?
Isn't it allegation of Sam Licarrdo 's involvement ?
Regarding imposing a name on a business strip , the fair way is to let the business owners of that strip
de
quang says
I want facts and figures ... no innuendos and allegations. That is the bottom line.
If no evidence , no allegation.
I used to be a supporter of this group but their actions has alienated me .
Please do not condone these kinds of behaviors.
Zach , see the Mercury News editorial ,"anti-communist extremist" "bizarre allegation of communist involvement " are the expletives the newspaper used to describe this group.
This is projecting a bad image on us in the eye of american public.
Zach says
Quang, yes, here's what I wrote and I need for you to read it AGAIN carefully:
"The question right now is not how the name should be compromised anymore, but more like will the Little Saigon group forgive and forget and not press charges against Sam Licarrdo, Henry Le, among other council members. "
Here, pressing charges against Sam Licarrdo means they will press charges on him because he was the one who used the petition as a strong argument against supporting the Little Saigon name. Out of th
Zach says
Zach , see the Mercury News editorial ,"anti-communist extremist" "bizarre allegation of communist involvement " are the expletives the newspaper used to describe this group.
A newspaper is not a Bible. Not everything they say is correct. Just because they use some words to describe some individuals, it is not right for you to go and say that it applies to the whole Little Saigon group. This in Vietnamese is called "vo dua ca nam".
stacy says
I don't know what's so hard to understand about Zach's comment....it's pretty clear so stop accusing him of saying some thing that he didn't say.
Bravo Zach, your comments were intelligent, civilized, and you brought up some very good points. Same with you, I have never heard of any compromise for the name Little Saigon Business District, if it were, we wouldn't still be discussing this today...I think Madison's assistant doesn't know what she's talking about.
PN says
We can throw facts, figures, numbers, emails, petitions, recordings, and everything else at you and someone will still say "we need to see evidence". Just wait, only time will tell.
civil says
Before you guys throw facts ,figures ... please throw away the liar Ly Tong first .
civil says
I see Andrea face smiling .
Michelle says
Bravo indeed Stacy! Zach, I commend you your being thoughtful and open-minded in your attempt to sort out all the issues in this matter. Children will be children and I admire your patience in trying to respond to some of the more rude and stubborn bloggers on this site. They obviously refuse to accept anything that counters their weak and sloppy arguments and continue to assert statements that (sometimes) don't even make sense. It's futile so I say maybe it's best to let the readers judge for
kate says
Let me get this straight....so it is not ok for Little Saigon supporters to call anyone a communist, but it is OK for you guys to call Ly Tong a liar?
Michelle says
Kate, don't bother wasting your time because(unfortunately) some of the anti-LS supporters continue to make unfounded assertions just to get people to stoop down to their level. Oftentimes, these statements actually defy logic altogether so go figure=)
quang says
I welcome folks who can provide facts and figures to this discussion because that has been lacking clearly.So no more excuses.
By saying "pressing charges against Sam L. and Henry Le ", is not that euivalent to accusing them of the same crime ?
I read like a third grader or Zach spelled and wrote like an iliterate ?
Can 't even spell absurd ?
Now that is absurd and patheric for an adult.
Learn to spell first before even attempting to write.
M.T. says
Come on people, it is only a NAME. It is not worth acting like a child. The Mayor and city council members have spoken on this. Let's get over it and move on. I can tell you for a fact that if we put it up for a vote, the demonstrators will lose for sure. You (demonstrators) are a small portion of community here in San Jose. That stripe that you are fighting over use to be majority mexican and it still is. You do not see the mexican or latino fighting over a name. People you are just mak
Kate says
Dear Quang, mixing a "b" and a "d" when someone is typing is a very common mistake. We are all humans and everyone makes mistakes. But what I find and I think most readers will agree with me is that Zach's posts are very respectful and he tries his best to answer your questions with examples and facts unlike some people who like to attack others for little things. I find him to be a very good writer and no part of what he wrote suggests he's illiterate or incompetent in any way. On the other han
kate says
Oh and forgot to mention one last point from Quang's comment.
"By saying "pressing charges against Sam L. and Henry Le ", is not that euivalent to accusing them of the same crime ?"
The answer is no, it isn't the same. If there are two guys going into the bank to rob it, one guy is taking the money and the other one shot a bank teller dead. The newspaper read, "The city is pressing charges against Mr. A and Mr. B"....now, are they being charged the same? NO. One person is charged with robbery w
James Nguyen says
Hi Zach,
Regarding your question on whether it was true that Madison Nguyen's office actually tried to reach a compromise w/ the LS supporters by adopting "Little Saigon Business District" to satisfy both "Little Saigon" and "Saigon Business District" supporters, please refer to the 11/20/07 City Council Meeting here:
http://sanjose.granicus.com/ViewPublisher.php?view_id=23
and open up "City Council Meeting--11/20/07 Video 08 hr. 43 min". Go straight to the council discussion that is right afte
M.T says
James,
It just tells you that Madison Nguyen is a very good politician. She was able to convince the other city council members to agree with her. That is why the vote in November was in favorit of SBD instead of LSBD.
In my opinion, we need to move on and live with the decision that our Mayor and city council members have voted on. After all we have voted for our Mayor and city council members to speak for us. Like Rodney King said after he got beat up by LAPD, "Can we all just get along",
Anonymous says
Zach, good for your for calling up MD's office.
Ladies and gentlemen, I'm actually in Asia right now so I can't follow all the developments first hand. This is very odd -- the signatures of people saying it wasn't theirs and that they thought they were signing something else. A do-over isn't going to work with the petition but something has to happen and it's not going to save much face.
People from all sides need to apologize and find a unified front on this. Our community is looking like a nas
zach says
Thanks James for the link. Actually I've seen that before. Like I said, I've been following this whole thing from the start and was quite confident that it never happened, but then I like to give people benefit of the doubt in cased I missed something since I can't read every newspaper or every memo about this issue. But yes, from the link, it's clear that whatever the intention is, compromising Little Saigon Business District is not on their agenda.
Zach says
It's finally over. Little Saigon prevailed!!!There are some strings attached but nevertheless, we will be able to put this issue to rest for a while. Mayor Chuck Reed has agreed to have banners and a gateway from HW 101 recognizing the name Little Saigon for a temporary period of time (2-3 years). After that, people can dispute and we can revisit this issue. Downside is the city will not support us financially, the Vietnamese community will have to pay for all costs, that way, now it's fair for
Ha Tran says
Thank goodness it is over! Not because it is Little Saigon. Because, so now we can move on with more important issues 🙂
Anonymous says
Yeah like what Madison said, "We can move on to more important issues like gang violence, affordable housing, and eliminating corruption and special interests".
Andrea Nguyen says
Whoah Zach, you SCOOPED the news before the SJ Mercury! It's good to know that the city found a temporary way to get beyond this situation. It would be terrible PR if something dire happened to Ly Tong in front of City Hall.
Over the next few months, things may unfold in a rather interesting fashion as people have to discuss how they can come together for the sake of the community's future. "Follow the money" is what one person wrote on in a posting on this blog a week or so ago.
So, yes, that's
anti-civil says
Civil,
Shame on you for being a Vietnamese in this community with bad attitude toward a respectable guy like Ly Tong and thousands of people all over the world who support him and LS. If you are good for the Viet community then do not call another Vietnamese a liar without understanding what the truth is. You should have some respect to a man who has risked his life many times to fight for democracy. What proof do you have to call this man a liar? You have no idea of what's happening and why we
neg says
i didn't hear about the proposed name "little saigon business district" so i gathered it was never mentioned to the public. anyhow, i am glad the matter has finally come to an end. personally, i support the name "little saigon" cuz it's a good common name that represents the vietnamese community; just like "chinatown" for the chinese. i don't mind seeing more "little saigon" popping up everywhere in the u.s. or around the globe. this will make things easier for travelers too; just rememberin
SammyTerO says
🙂 Wow. nice arcticle
QuityyZyttt says
My happy face! 🙂
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marlon says
A newspaper is not a Bible. Not everything they say is correct. Just because they use some words to describe some individuals, it is not right for you to go and say that it applies to the whole Little Saigon group.
marlon says
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