I've been out of the country and upon my return, Simon Bao notified me that Top Chef contestants in season 4 are putting interesting twists on Vietnamese culinary concepts. Perhaps with Hung's win last season, the door is opening up to incorporating Viet ideas into the food.
Recently, contestant Spike Mendelson and Manuel Trevino make this little ditty:
Summer Roll with Black Vermicelli (see recipe)
Let me make a few points, and I suppose I'll get my aggression out first and then you're free to weigh in...
The name "Summer Roll" -- What's with calling these hand rolls summer rolls? Is it versus Chinese spring rolls? These Vietnamese rolls are a year round food. Chinese spring rolls are literally called that in Chinese, and they're a traditional food that's enjoyed during Lunar New Year. I translate the Viet rolls as salad rolls because their original name goi cuon is literally salad roll since most of the common elements of a goi (special event salad) are cuon (rolled up) in a sheath of rice paper.
Now, there's a bit Chinese garlic chive that gets tucked in there and that's a summer veggie. Is that why they're called summer rolls by so many English-speaking people? Because of the seasonality of the chives?
The other name that I've often seen is "fresh spring roll." Is that opposed to an old one?
In Saigon, there's now a restaurant dedicated to rolling stuff up in rice paper. It's a roll-your-own joint called "cuon" because that's the generic name for these rolls -- rolls.
This is a global issue that I've noticed for years and no one has been able to answer the question for me...what's with "summer roll" and "fresh spring roll"? Do tell if you have a hunch!
As for the specific recipe presented on Top Chef, it seems to have been rather creative. I like the Chilean Sea Bass (which frankly shouldn't be used because it's a no-no fish on the overfished list; see the Monterey Bay Aquarium's Seafood Watch page for information on sustainable seafood) . Catfish, regular seabass, trout, or butterfish would have been nice. As for the black vermicelli (bun), I've seen that pricey product at the Asian market so it was a good, trick to use.
The odd thing was with the dipping sauce, called Apple clam -- which I mistook for a kind of mollusk. Lo and behold, it's a sauce make with -- ahem... fish sauce, apple soda, apple cider vinegar, lime juice and chiles. I suppose that was to match the apples in the roll.
I often feel that cooks take modern/nouveau twists on sushi and roll it up in rice paper. Nothing wrong with that, as long as it tastes good.
I'm not sure if this tasted good -- especially on the bed of chard. I guess it wasn't great since one of the chefs was eliminated...
Any insights from you all?
Robyn says
Maybe 'summer rolls' because - it's always summer in Vietnam (in the south, at least). Alas, we have no access to Top Chef here, but I don't even like the sound of 'bed of chard' next to 'summer roll'.
Rosa says
I prefer to stick to the traditional version which I love!
Those modern versions are interesting and delicious, but can't be compared to the original Summer Rolls... They are just too different. It's something else!
Cheers,
Rosa
Neneh says
My only thought about the term "fresh spring roll" is to differentiate from deep fried spring rolls - the herbs and vegetables are fresh. Then I have heard people refer to deep fried spring rolls (cha gio) as imperial rolls. Ooops... is this just adding to the confusion?
Simon Bao says
Andrea, the rolls served on Top Chef could not have been very good, as all 4 judges and all 8 dinner guests chose those Cuon as their least favorite among 6 dishes. It was all a bit disappointing because, on paper, in his persona as "Chef Spike," the chef responsible for selecting and making fish-filled Cuon, he has a good CV. And he works at Mai House in Manhattan. And says he's been cooking Vietnamese food for 2+ years.
I hope the poor reception given to fish-filled Cuon on Top Chef doesn'
Simon Bao says
Andrea, I can't help myself, I have to comment on how Chef Spike served those Cuon to his guests. For those who did not see, he served them on a square white plate that was covered with a large square of dried banana leaf.
I'm sure that in a restaurant setting with American customers, plating Vietnamese food on a banana leaf must seem evocative somehow. Tropical, Asiatique, that final touch of Olde Saigon.
But to me, a banana leaf is just a food wrapper. We wrap Cha Lua, Banh Bot Loc, Banh Na
Andrea Nguyen says
Ah, Chef Spike is from Mai House, a Drew Nieporent restaurant group establishment that has Michael Bao Huynh as the chef/owner. "Now I see," said the blind man...
As for the "Apple Clam" -- thanks for the clarification that it is a typo -- Top Chef -- which has a lot more resources than any of us here -- ought to get their information spelled correctly, especially if it's in a foreign language. Maybe it could be the name of a new cocktail?
So Simon, was the bed of chard atop the banana leaf? I a
Andrea Nguyen says
As for Spring Roll, Summer Roll, and Fresh Spring Roll, my hubby reminded me this evening that sometimes people just weirdly categorize new foreign things as they encounter them. While I don't think that this is a case quite like calling Mumbai Bombay and Beijing Peking, I do think that it's a little strange.
All your hunches are in the right direction but for the life of me, I don't know what the answer is. For my book, I spent days thinking about how to translate cha gio into English and decid
Andrea Nguyen says
And another thing before I got to sleep --- whenever the Food Network airs the episode of Iron Chef in which Mario Batali rolls a fatty rice paper roll, I hear about it. Yes, I've seen that segment and was rather appalled. Batali had just gone to Vietnam and he was so enthusiastic about the trip that he had to make his own version of a rice paper roll. It was so overstuffed that it burst at one point. He should have practiced a little bit before doing it on air.
If I were going to make fresh pas
Simon Bao says
Andrea, if someone told me a guy is Chef de Cuisine at Mai House, I'll expect something much better than a poorly executed fish Cuon. Yikes.
To answer your question about the Swiss Chard, yes both it and the sliced sections of Cuon were just sitting on top of the banana leaf. It wasn't a bed of chard, it was just a small pile of chard sitting there all on its lonesome. The stems were sliced, then they and the leaves were blanched and quickly "pickled." It looked a little scary though, not at
Simon Bao says
Andrea, overstuffing a Cha Gio or Goi Cuon is a kind of "newbie" blunder that one never likes to see.
It's not quite as big a mess as I've seen Nigella Lawson make of her "Vietnamese Salad Rolls," which came undone in a great mess. But Lawson admitted that hers were a mess, that she really didn't care, she laughed heartily and authentically about it, and went on to savor it all anyway. The right way to handle a blunder. 🙂
Trang says
Well said, I have always struggled with how others put a twist that somewhat distort the authenticity of Vietnamese cuisines. For instance, Pho has to be authentic, but I once worked at an Asian fusion restaurant where they had pho*? with the big noodles, and with grilled chicken or grilled beef as topping, with no basil, no bean sprouts. When I approached the owner, he said he had no choice but to cater to the customers who aren't familiar with authentic Vietnamese food.
Same thing with Goi Cuo
Binh says
I didn't attempt to make this, so I can't comment on the way it taste. That being said, I think the comments above are a bit harsh and unfair. I am (always have been) a Vietnamese food purist - anything you call Vietnamese food should be done properly -- and I frown on the Indochina trend discussed a while back. However, what was discussed here is just a tangent of an Vietnamese dish - an inspired dish.
Food is a living thing. It evolves through time, inspired by experience, education, economic,
Robyn says
I'm kind of agreeing with Binh a bit here. The words 'authentic/authenticity' make me cringe a bit when I hear them associated with food. I understand the impulse -- OK, let's not throw beef and some rice noodles in a bowl and just call it 'pho' -- but as Binh points out, food is a living, breathing thing that, like culture, morphs over time. My response to the whole Swiss chard thing was in reference to taste -- eegads, I just can't imagine Swiss chard working in ANY kind of pseudo-spring/summe
Andrea Nguyen says
You got it, my friends! What is authentic food?
Simon Bao says
I'm not entirely sure how "Authenticity" entered the conversation. On "Top Chef," not a soul criticized the fish rolls for any lack of authenticity. Authenticity never came up. The guests and judges just really didn't like the dish at all.
My own criticism of the dish haven't been couched in terms of Authenticity. I see "Chef Spike" as someone who hasn't learned some fundamentals or basics about how to make a good roll. And the result was, 4 judges and 8 guests all thought that was the wors
Minh-Nhu Nguyen says
Here in Australia we seemed to have settle on calling it fresh/rice paper rolls, everyone seems very happy with that.
One thing I have to mentioned is that I often see tv chefs dunks the paper into water and leaving it for 1-2 minutes and then drying it off onto a paper towel, What the!?
As for authenticity, many 'western' chefs here love the paper as a wrapper and do take it on a different direction, one that I would never go, but I love the idea that it's so versatile and accesible.
It's so wr
Gastronomer says
I've been internally debating this spring/summer roll issue forever. Glad to see I'm not alone.
I grew up calling cha gio egg rolls, which is unfortunate.
I vote to call things what they are in their native language and supply a fitting description.
Al says
Minh-Nhu,
I grew up in an Italian neighborhood. About half of the neighborhood were my Grandmother's relatives.
Pasta with fish sauce sounds good. Is there more to it than just seasoning plain pasta with the sauce?
Al
Minh-Nhu Nguyen says
Al
I wouldn't recommend it!!!!!!!!LOL. My siblings and I are totally not too sure about this as we haven't actually been game enough to try it. But that's the only way we can get the 'oldies' to try new cuisine...!
You know what it worked though mum and dad are now more open to the idea of going out to 'western" restaurant, but we insist they leave the fish sauce at home.
BTW yes they simply squirt some from the bottle. LOL
Al says
Minh-Nhu,
I was just curious. I have a recipe, from Jack Denton Scott's pasta book, for a "sauce" made of tuna, anchovies and capers. It looks like dried-up cat food, but is quite good on buttered pasta.
Replace the anchovies with a few squirts of fish sauce ...
Al
Andrea Nguyen says
I'm sure the Roman had pasta with their fish sauce (liquamen) thousands of years ago. What about the pasta dish that includes anchovies, raisins and pine nuts?
Gastronomer -- I know, what do we do but discuss the naming issue in public? Drag it out and hang it up for all to examine. Why not just call the rolls goi cuon ("goy coon")? I'd be happiest with that!
Simon Bao says
Andrea, I'm with Gastronomer and you on this.
If English-speakers can master words like sushi, sashimi, lasagna, petit-fours, and smorgasbord, they can comfortably learn to say Goi Cuon.
Is it all in my head, or do cooks and chefs eagerly embrace Japanese words for ingredients and dishes, but resist that when it comes to other cuisines? I mean, everyone is fine calling things udon, dashi, miso, soba, surimi, azuki, yuzu, matsutake, enoki, shiitake, ramen, hamachi, unagi, nori, konbu, edamame, t
Anonymous says
Simon and Gastronomer, the Vietnamese language doesn't make it easy for non-Viet speakers to figure out how to pronounce Vietnamese food terms. All the diacritics on our language is challenging and Viet restaurateurs and food people need to meet other folks midway. I suppose, to do a little education -- offer a pronunciation guideline on menus?
It's hard to do that design-wise. My publisher and I had planned to include pronunciation for each recipe title but we couldn't fit it in design-wise so
Simon Bao says
I think the best approach is to simply help an English speaker approximate the word. Few English speakers give authentic pronunciations to culinary terms or the names of dishes from France or Spain or Mexico or Lebanon, and I'm prepared to be as casual about how they pronounce Viet words.
If one really wants to advance the cause of Viet words for Viet dishes, one can write about Goi Cuon, and add in parentheses (SL Goy Coon). Meaning, sounds like goy coon. Eh... sounds close enough and an En
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