Binh and Robyn just brought up an important issue that plagues me -- keeps me worried and up at nights, frankly: What is authenticity in the realm of food?
For example, every once in a while, I get an email from a Vietnamese American asking me if my book, Into the Vietnamese Kitchen, offers authentic Vietnamese recipes or Americanized Vietnamese recipes. I don't know what "American Vietnamese" food is about. Are they wanting techniques and ingredients presented from the motherland? Am I inauthentic because I use a 4-burner gas stove instead of a single burner, propane fueled system or a charcoal brazier? Should I sit on a low stool on the floor to do all the prep work? What about the food processor -- one of my favorite appliances? Is that modern convenience inauthentic?
I know what is good and what is bad food to my palate. I wouldn't put forth a recipe that I wouldn't eat or wouldn't proudly present to family and friends. As a food writer and recipe developer, I try to compromise as little as possible but I also balance that with the need to get people into the kitchen to cook.
In response to such queries, I often ask these folks to elaborate a bit, and one of the responses has been that Americanized Vietnamese food is the overly sweet crud that is dished up in Viet restaurants. Well, my friends, plenty of Vietnamese people prepare and patronize those establishments and they say that the food is cheap but "it's just okay." Why eat it then? Why not demand better? Why not make it yourself. You'll have no one else but yourself to praise or blame.
I'm a stickler for learning the foundations of cooking and of a cuisine before fiddling with it. I'm working on a new book project (not Vietnamese) and in a conversation with a renown Japanese food expert and author Elizabeth Andoh, she mentioned that she avoids the word classic because food is constantly changing. She instead goes for 'typical' preparations -- what people in the main prepare, how they prepare it. We didn't even touch on what authenticity is. However, at the end of the day, the food has to taste good and the techniques have to be solid.
Something else that Elizabeth said a few years back that always sticks with me is this (and I paraphrase): Mastering a cuisine is not a birthright. This means that just because you're of a certain ethnicity doesn't mean that you're genetically programed to prepare it well.
Saveur magazine, a food magazine that I write for and am a contributing editor of, has the tagline of "Savor a world of authentic cuisine." So what does that mean? How is authentic cuisine defined? We answer it all the time, for every story, and it changes because it has to do with the subject. At the end of the day, I always define authentic cuisine as one that captures the relationship between people and their food.
If any of you are philosophy types, Jean Paul Satre was a proponent of something called the authentic self -- meaning that you are a true, honest person. Though that authentic self includes the good, bad and ugly, I like to put a positive spin on things by defining authentic food as this: Good tasting food that's well-crafted from someone's heart and soul.
And now, it's your turn!
Some parting thoughts and I await your shots...
- What does authentic food mean to you?
- I just came back from Asia, where I did some serious eating with Robyn and her husband Dave in Kuala Lumpur, where the cuisine is a crazy combination of Asian cuisines that's evolved over centuries. How would you capture authenticity there?
- In Hong Kong, there is instant ramen noodles everywhere for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Is that authentic Hong Kong fare or merely a trend?
- In our post-modern, reality-TV based world of the Food Network and Top Chef, how authentic is the stuff presented on air?
Robyn says
Great - I love this! Thanks for devoting a whole post to it. You've opened a can of worms and I bet this will generate lots of good discussion.
I've been a fan of Saveur from the very first issue and when I saw that tagline including the words 'a world of authentic cuisine' I felt they'd really hit the nail on the head. I was living in China at the time and when I looked at the photos in the first few issues I thought, 'Finally - a magazine that shows how people around the world REALLY cook and
Mike says
I get annoyed by people who think in terms of "authentic" food. Recipes are constantly evolving, as are cultures and traditions. To say something is authentic is to assume it is a timeless, untainted, and pure. But nothing really is. That's not to say there are huge gray areas- there are. I just prefer the term 'traditional' or 'cultural'. Authentic is too loaded.
Regarding Vietnamese food, I like to think about Pho. And I know you've touched on this before. Its origins are French but would anyo
Simon Bao says
Andrea, on an episode of Top Chef recently Rick Bayless quoted someone else who said, If a cuisine is not evolving, it's dead." It's an idea to bear in mind when people get carried away with anxieties over Authenticity.
I think the idea of "authentic cuisine" is kind of a paradox. It's both an important and useful idea, it's worthy of attention; and it's also an utterly bogus and useless idea because no two ever people mean the same thing when they talk about what's "authentic." And seldom ev
Simon Bao says
Andrea, let me add an anecdote. On a food list somewhere, I had posted a recipe for a soup. Possibly one of your own. Someone asked me if it would be OK to use canned chicken broth and I said yes, in that recipe it would be fine.
A self-styled expert on All Cuisines Southeast Asian got all worked up and into a hissy fit, declaring Oh My God No, that's not authentic. Authentic Vietnamese Cuisine never uses canned chicken broth.
I pondered what to do, as I visualized all those cans of chicken
Simon Bao says
Andrea, to push this a bit further... One of the problems with using the word Authentic to describe a dish or a cuisine is that word carries with it an unstated premise.
There's a premise that somewhere out there exists an authoritative Original Bowl of Pho. Or an Original Goi Cuon. A premise that there is one Original Bowl of Bo Kho, against which all subsequent and future bowls of bo kho can be measured. Find the Original Dish and you'll be able to list its essential characteristics, and t
Binh says
I love Vietnamese food the same way I love the language, the culture. In a strange land, the authenticity of the Vietnamese dishes I prepare for friends and family is a reflection of myself and my roots. It is an attempt to share something I hold dear to my heart. A buillion cube, a can of broth for stock is survival -- a half-a-day pot of beef broth for pho is paying respect to the cuisine, to the guest, and to yourself.
Authenticity is time-honed, proven methods of how to best prepare a dish
Dani says
* What does authentic food mean to you?
I'm not comfortable with food being described as authentic. There are just too many problems with that description. As a basic example, I made pho for tonight's dinner. But I am 5th generation caucsian Australian. I used a slow cooker to make the stock. So it can't possibly be authentic right? Despite the very Vietnamese origin of my recipe. Regions have distinctive flavours, but I'm not sure that we can go much further than that without getting ourselves
Joel says
I think Robyn's take is interesting and does make sense in a was, that any evolution of food taken by natives keeps a dish authentic, but any changes made by foreigners is considered a departure from authenticity.
But this raises the question of modifications by migrants: do early 20th century Italian migrants to the United States modified the dish in ways that make them no longer authentic? The increased amounts of meat, etc, Sunday gravy would ahhor Italians in the home country at the time.
Joel says
BTW this may not be relevant to the discussion here, but there is a new Vietnamese cookbook in English published in this part of the world. "Secrets of the Red Lantern: Stories and Vietnamese Recipes from the Heart: Stories and Recipes from the Heart" (Murdoch Books, Oct 2007, ISBN 1740459040) from Pauline Nguyen, Luke Nguyen, Mark Jensen based in Sydney, co-owners of the Red Lantern Restaurant ( http://www.redlantern.com.au ), has written a cookbook with recipes from the restaurant. Do we jus
Joel says
Found a review of "Secrets of the Red Lantern" by Melbourne's Duncan Markham here. Related to this discussion here, the reviewer also mentioned Andrea's "Into the Vietnamese Kitchen" and he mentioned a Vietnamese homecook in Australia told him that Andrea's work had been adopted a bit for Americans, but also entirely correct about ingredients:
http://www.syrupandtang.com/200710/review-secrets-of-the-red-lantern-by-pauline-nguyen/
And the "Secrets of the Red Lantern" book's publisher page is her
Robyn says
I'm back after my definition of authentic cuisine as 'real' cuisine, ie the cuisine eaten in the country in question right now, inspired vociferous objections from my better half. He maintains that authenticity is about (1) technique and (2) ingredients. Of course he is entirely wrong about number (1) - sorry Dave - because using a blender to make a curry paste instead of pounding it in a mortar does not render a dish inauthentic. Goodness, I've seen cooks in northern Thailand soften/brown their
Andrea Nguyen says
Ya know, after those months of duking it out over the San Jose Little Saigon naming controversy, I'm sure glad to be talking about the abstract, philosophical aspects of food again! You've all contributed such eloquent responses. I'm very touched.
So a couple of thoughts...Yep, a cuisine that doesn't evolve is a dead one but the evolutionary process of cooking is one that involves folding in new ideas, kneading it for a while, shaping it into some form, and then applying a cooking method to it t
Andrea Nguyen says
Joel, I got Pauline Nguyen's new book in Shanghai and paid dearly for it, then hauled it home along with the dozens of books I picked up in Singapore. Beautiful publication. I can't wait to dive into it.
Robyn, we didn't have the Sichuan peppercorns till last year in the U.S. and well, mapo dofu still stinks in most American restos.
Joel says
Oh I'm sorry to hear that Andrea. Buying books published China in Chinese cities is bound to be horrendously expensive. Let us know if it is worth the price to add to our bookshelves :).
I glanced through the book at Whitcoulls and it is indeed a very beautiful publication. The human interest story is very heart-breaking. But cooking wise I feel much of the recipes are pretty much already covered in your book. And add to it Duncan Markham's pretty negative review I think I will save my $$$
Joel says
Typos. Should be "Buying books published outside China in Chinese cities..."
Anonymous says
One of my favorite restaurants of all time was a Vietnamese place just off the elevated tracks on the way to grandma's in Chicago. I stumbled in there one night and went back so many times after that I was invited to one of the daughter's wedding. After a few years of enjoying their food I asked why I didn't like other Vietnamese restaurants very much, even though many Vietnamese people did enjoy the restaurants. My friend replied that her mother made food she thought American's would like.
Anonymous says
One of my favorite restaurants of all time was a Vietnamese place just off the elevated tracks on the way to grandma's in Chicago. I stumbled in there one night and went back so many times after that I was invited to one of the daughter's wedding. After a few years of enjoying their food I asked why I didn't like other Vietnamese restaurants very much, even though many Vietnamese people did enjoy the restaurants. My friend replied that her mother made food she thought American's would like.
Toe says
McDonald's serves Authentic American Cheeseburgers.
You may not think they're *good* American cheeseburgers, and they may not be made the way your mom made them, but given that they're by far the most common cheeseburgers in America, it's hard to argue that they're not authentic.
I do like to know how close a dish comes to what I might be served at a foreign restaurant, or at the home of the Nguyen family, the Gonzalez family, the Rashid family, or the Smith family. But I never, ever let that s
Al says
I once had a math instructor who claimed that we should never use the phrase "perfect circle." According to him, if it wasnt't perfect, it wasn't a circle.
Of course, that makes mathematical sense, but in everyday life it is not so useful.
Nate 2.0 says
My first thought was that authentic char kway teow MUST be cooked over a charcoal fire. Just like authentic barbecue MUST be smoked over a wood fire. The tools used definitely do have a say in what makes food authentic. (sorry, Dave).
That doesn't mean that food not cooked with certain implements is not good. Of course the modern conveniences make things better.
All that being said, though, I think food is authentic when it comes from a caring kitchen.
Minh-Nhu Nguyen says
Joel I love that book and recommended it to lots of friends(I'm Perth btw). We've all cooked from it and it's great. You're right however that there's a few recipes that do cross over with Andreas book. But I still think it's worth the money.
Neneh says
This discussion is interesting considering I'm finding myself in Vietnam after having lived the past 30 years in Canada, eating my mother's Vietnamese food. My instinct is to have my mom's food as a baseline. However, you could argue that the food here would be more "authentic". What I've realized is that while I'm thoroughly enjoying the food here, there are things that I like better back home, possibly the less "authentic" version:
1)my mom uses better cuts of meats in certain dishes. I don't
Simon Bao says
As long as the subject is Authenticity, and VNese cookbooks, are people familiar with "Lemongrass and Lime: New Vietnamese Cooking?"
If people have seen it, and can leave aside the issues of design, layout and editing... and focus just on the recipes, or on comments made about "modern Vietnamese cooking"... what reactions did others have?
Andrea Nguyen says
Simon, that's the book from Australia, correct? Mark Read was the author and I wasn't very impressed with the work. I suppose my question is when someone presents "new" of any cuisine, what is the "old" about? As I vaguely recall (I don't have the book in front of me) there wasn't much explanation about the basis of the new. The recipes were very restauranty and don't translate into home kitchens well. So if you're unfamiliar with Vietnamese cooking, it's not a great learning tool.
Simon Bao says
The author is from Australia or the UK, I can't recall which.
What struck me about the recipes was that there was no discussion of them, at all. No information about what the "old school version" of a dish may be like, or what the logic and intention where in the changes the author was making. In most cases, very substantial changes. For example, for the "new" Vietnamese beef pho, the author called for roasting some veal knuckle bones and then using those to make a brown veal stock. No expla
Xander says
I see the term 'authentic' used a lot in food-travel writing, and I always find it kind of questionable. I come at food from a background in anthropology, so I tend to approach cuisine like I approach culture. In anthropology, the idea of 'authentic' cultures has largely been brushed aside. To describe either culture or food as authentic ignores that they are vibrant, always changing. What is authentic Thai food, for example? It's been so influenced by Indian, Chinese, Portuguese, Khmer (etc etc
T H Le says
I think when people say authentic, it is in the favor of the food or the technique that it was cooked. An example is making coq au vin with a stir fry method. The favor would be different because of the technique.
Food evolves with diversity. Viet food has become better, in my opinion, when Viets moved to the USA. The country has allowed introduction of different favors which enhanced and/or improved on taste.
Pho may have it's origins from a French dish, but can we say that pho is non-authe
White On Rice Couple says
Another stimulating post here Andrea, Bravo!
Everyone has made wonderful points, not much left for me to contribute.
I say "Authenticity" is so relative- based on a multitude of factors, all of which have been beautifully clarified here. It sometimes tires me out with all the energy and heated passion that gets put toward this subject. Sometimes people think about it too much. Everyone here makes sense because they speak from their heart, their family traditions, their experience.
All I say is,
JoeDo says
To Mike- Since when was pho French? I fail to see how a dish with all traditional east Asian ingredients and techniques becomes European. The complement of roasted herbs and aromatics is shared throughout the old Viet heartland of Southern China/Vietnam. The liquid is a universal bone broth- used in Asia, in Latin America, Europe and Africa, i.e. everywhere. The hoisin sauce and chili-garlic used to liven the dish aren't authentically Parisian, my friend.
The truth is that no one ever wrote down
Jack Ko says
The definition of what makes something authentic is complicated and opinionated. So instead I'll venture into what's not authentic. For example, Singapore fried rice noodles does NOT contain curry powder, despite what many asian restaurants in the United States would have you believe. For that matter, you can't just add some fish sauce and call something Vietnamese, and you can't just add soy sauce and call it Chinese. I recognize that people from a certain ethnicity don't universally have great
Antique cabinet says
The ones they have at the chinese buffets
John Paul says
Food in today's sense has evolved from its original roots as a way to survive. It has become an amalgam of ingredients, techniques, and lifestyles. Can nature versus nurture feed into this debate? As a first generation Filipino growing up in the states, I grew up eating only what my family prepared which of course included the usual Filipino fare. As I grew older, I realized that even other Filipino's in the area tended to their recipes in ways that were completely different than our own. What i
Andrea Nguyen says
John Paul, You are so very right. Food shifts constantly per location and available resources. What's authentic is what the cook puts into it! Thanks for contributing your thoughts.
Thanh Viet says
"Dac Biet ?" 🙂
I think I got it... My dad (who was french) bought a translated Vietnamese Cook Book. The author was vietnamese living in US, and for some reason he couldn't find the meat cut as he wanted, and the only pieces he could find were T-Bone steaks, Sirloin and shreaded meat (to make meatballs or burgers), so guess how was Pho Tai ??? Same thing about Banh Pho: he couldn't find any during the 70's so he used Spaghetti. Uh... that's not authentic, it is expat cuisine as we said 😉
Same
Andrea Nguyen says
Thanh Viet -- that's is very very funny and interesting about your family. Love the innovative ideas too. Just keep the culinary concepts flowing. Thanks for sharing.
kanit says
Please see twitter/kanitthaifood re: authentic authenticity
and I am changing my old habit to using the term "TRADITIONAL THAI".
I have many times defined "THAI FOOD DISH" and TRADITIONAL THAI FOOD DISH"... in the net too!
Here is some info, from my book "Gastronomy in Asia III = Thai Food History and Transliterations", on PHAT THAI...PHAD THAI / PAD THAI / PAT THAI etc.
- Phat Thai Kung Sot (Th) [Vocal = P’had T’hai Goong Sod] Fried Thai Noodles with Fresh Prawn
- For Phat Thai to be a TRAD
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marlon says
My first thought was that authentic char kway teow MUST be cooked over a charcoal fire.