This is a touchy subject but it is part of Asian foodways. I was recently interviewed for a Los Angeles Times article on US Marine Lieutenant Colonel Robert Lucius's effort to change Vietnamese mindset on the eating of dog meat.
While serving as an attache at the U.S. embassy in Hanoi, Lucius locked eyes with a dog that was destined to be slaughtered. The event precipitated his becoming a vegan and launching a Kairos Coalition, an educational nonprofit that aims to end animal cruelty.
Los Angeles Times journalist Steve Chawkins and I talked about Vietnamese foodways and the eating of dog meat. Chawkins's provocative article was published today.
Take a read of his article. I've also found several others for your consideration.
- Marine Fights Vietnam's Dog-Meat Tradition (Steve Chawkins, Los Angeles Times, 12/13/10)
- China Banning Dog Meat? (Robyn Eckhardt, Zester Daily, 2/19/10)
- The Dog Meat Mafia (4-part series on Southeast Asia's dog meat trade) (Patrick Winn, Global Post, 11/29/09)
- I've Got Dog Breadth and My Puppy Might Know (Mark Lowerson, Sticky Rice, 2005)
- What's Wrong with Eating Dogs? (William Saletan, Slate, 2002)
I've never eaten dog meat but understand that it has a special taste that some people love. Certain breeds are bred for food while many others are kept as pets. As Vietnam's economy improves, you see more people with pet dogs. Nevertheless, the practice of eating dog meat endures.
Dog is treated as a specialty food in parts of Asia. It's an exotic meat, a delicacy so to speak. Not all Asian people eat dog. Sadly, there have been awful stereotypes of Asian people as dog meat eaters. It is not everyday food. There are many other things to eat!
In Vietnam, dog is mostly a northern thing. A head-to-tail rigor is applied to the carcass and little is wasted. The flesh can be skewered and grilled or simmered into stewy dishes. The entrails are made into sausages.
Robust galangal, lemongrass, shrimp sauce (mam tom), and turmeric are the common seasonings in Vietnamese dog preparations. In Vietnamese, dog meat is called "thit cho" and "thit cay." There are restaurants that specialize in it so you'll likely see it on signage in Vietnam.
There are also a number of Vietnamese mock dog dishes that employ pork as a substitute. Cookbooks published in Vietnam typically list recipes for dog meat in addition to those featuring pork, beef, rabbit, and goat -- just to name the four-legged animals.
Chawkins' article points out that dogs are sometimes tortured before being harvested. The theory is that such an animal is good for the male libido. That's ridiculous. It is cruel to treat an animal with such disrespect, especially when it will grace your table. Seriously.
What are your thoughts on Asia's dog-meat eating tradition? With regard to Lucius's campaign to alter Vietnamese foodways, do you think that is it cultural imperialism? Cultural relativism? An animal rights/cruelty issue?
Thanks for weighing in. I realize that this may be an uncomfortable subject to ponder.
Thuy
My father vowed never to return to Vietnam because the Viet Cong slaughtered his dog for dinner almost 40 years ago.
I have 3 dogs of my own and I find it repulsive that anyone would want to eat dogs. But I can see how someone would be intrigued by the taste of dogs' flesh. There are people who are adventurist eaters. Why else would someone eat monkey brains, horse meat, human flesh...? Conservative eaters have defined what is "proper" and "appropriate" to eat. These same people would problem die from shock and horror if they were to walk the streets of Thailand and Cambodia and see the bugs and insects that sold in the stalls.
Eve
When we were wandering around in Hanoi earlier this year, I asked my spouse "What's that smell - is it roast lamb?" Turned out to be a street of dog-meat restaurants. We didn't eat any (still full of breakfast pho) but I can still remember how good it smelled.
Mzungu
I've never eaten dog, well I think I have never eaten dog. There was once or twice in China I was not sure what it was.
I've eaten horse and it was the best meat I had ever eaten.
But who are we to lecture other cultures on what they can and can not eat. Who are we Victorian era Christian Missionaries.
Beaulotus
I am moving to China in a few weeks and your post has reminded me that I had better watch what I eat in restaurants there - that I had better learn how the Chinese call their dog meat...
The thought of eating dog, turtle, snake, horse, rabbit makes me sick. I have nothing against those who like them - but personally I cannot stomach the thought of eating those animals. I love a good steak so I'm far from vegetarian, but I like to pay for my meat and know that it has been farmed ethically, treated well etc. I'm also trying not to eat animals that have been slaughtered too young.
Best to eat lesser but better. There is enough meat to go around, no need to seek out the exotic in my opinion.
Mary
I have to admit, the thought of eating any sort of predator (dogs, sharks, etc) turns me off. But if there's going to be a true sea change in Vietnam where animals are protected, langurs, various monkey species, tigers, rhinos, endangered lizards, plus species that exist only in Vietnam -- these seems to me to be far more needing of legal protections.
Erica
Lucius's focus (as a vegan) is not just on dogs, but on all meat. The LA Times piece is focused on dogs, and American donors to Lucius's campaign are focusing on dogs... but I think Lucius's actual outreach program in Vietnam is more about discouraging meat consumption in general, or, in his words, conveying "important social messages about animal welfare, environmental sustainability, empathy & tolerance."
I'm interested in why the dog aspect of this story is most interesting to Americans. What is the difference between raising dogs for meat and raising pigs for meat? Is the concern that pets might be kidnapped and eaten?
lost duck
in the article, mr. lucius claimed that he didn't want to be seen as the "cultural impreialist". well that is exactly what he is. who is he to say what other cultures should or should not eat? this marine who believes he's taking some kind of moral stance by opposing the consumption of dog meat is typical western/white supremacy. he thinks he's on the moral high ground. why? because dogs are used as pets in western society? because lassie is too cute to eat? why should any animal be viewed differently than others? why not take up the fight in his home country against the consumption and cruelty towards cows, chickens, pigs, etc.?
i'm not advocating the consumption of dog or anything else for that matter. however, i do believe that people have the right to eat whatever they want (so long as the food in question is not endangered). it makes me sick to my stomach when people like this marine feel like they have the right to pass judgement on other cultures/norms. he should take a long hard look at his own culture before he passes judgement on others. there is plenty of animal cruelty happening in america. fight that before you head off to some distant land trying impose your cultural values on others.
we also should keep in mind that other societies may not have access to prepackaged chicken breasts and new york strips all year long. costco hasn't opened up a branch in hanoi yet. other societies have their reasons for eating what they do. maybe its a seasonal thing. maybe its a cultural thing. maybe they eat certain things we don't out of necessity. but what if some other cultures tell us we should stop eating cheetohs and stop drinking soda? these food items are much more harmful to the human body than any animal meat. what would the typical american response to that be? go f____ yourself. so thats basically my response to my lucius. mind your business and keep your cultural values to yourself.
Andrea Nguyen
Eve: Thanks for the description of cooking dog meat. I've heard that it's super fragrant, like you can smell it for quite a distance.
Beaulotus: In China, dog meat goes by 狗肉 (gǒu ròu).
A few weeks ago, CNN reported that a new species of lizard had been discovered on a buffet menu in Vietnam:
http://articles.cnn.com/2010-11-10/living/lizard.lunch.discovery_1_lizard-species-reptiles-scientists?_s=PM:LIVING
Erica: I wonder the same. What's with the fixation on dog meat eating? Have pets disappeared when Vietnamese people moved into the neighborhood? It's easy and sexy to zoom in on issues like this.
On the other hand, I remember being in Vietnam and the locals were so into hyping up obscure/outlier types of things like snake liquor and grilled iguana. Who eats and drinks like that on a normal basis in Vietnam (and elsewhere in Asia, for that matter)? So the Vietnamese have a hand in fanning the flames on their food fetishes.
I also wonder about the focus on exotic meats as being a source of male virility. Given the human population in Asia, propagation isn't an issue. Men seem to be plenty potent.
DOG GUY
HEY GUY,
' TO END OF ANIMAL CRUELTY '
WHAT IS THE DIFFRENCE WHEN YOU EAT BEEF, CHICKEN MEAT ( YOU ARE ENJOYING IT, AR' NT YOU )! )& DOG MEAT - THEY ARE ANIMALS, ANYWAY ?
Mary
Andrea, I was thinking about that lizard story when I posted earlier, but couldn't locate the link. Sadly, the lizard doesn't even seem to be especially tasty, just nearly extinct. There was another story about -- a bear maybe? -- a while back that had been held for years while some fluid or other (bile?) was taken from it for medicine. While I wouldn't want to eat dog meat, it's my own "ick" factor. Would it make sense if I said in general I don't think we in the west need to tell anyone what to eat, but there might be a greater good at stake for endangered or cruelly treated animals, where stronger actions are justified?
Alex Khoo
LA Times is focusing on the wrong topic. They focus on the dog meat agenda because in America the dog is the mans' best friend. However in France horse meat is a delicacy but how come no one makes a scene out of it, the horse is also considered an animal close to us humans. What is the difference in raising other animals such as pigs, cattle, chicken, ducks and even seafood for consumption. I think they should not judge other cultures without having a look at the bigger picture.
Nate @ House of Annie
He's a vegan activist focused on the animal cruelty aspect. Which I guess means he's not just anti-dog meat but anti-meat in general. Just take a look at Kairos' Facebook wall and you get an idea where he's going.
Me, I love dogs. But I'm an adventurous omnivore. If I were in Vietnam or any country that serves dog meat and I were offered it, I would try it. They as a culture have determined that dog meat is not offensive and is, instead tasty. I'm curious to find out why.
Diane
I don't think I would ever eat dog. But I have eaten both horse and rabbit, and enjoyed both, so I think it's just a question of what you are used to and what your social/food taboos are. Some people are equally horrified by eating pork. Or beef. Both of which many Americans would smack our lips over and chow down on.
When I was in high school I had a friend who raised trabbits for meat. And she also had rabbits as pets. The outdoor rabbits had no names, and the indoor rabbits (pets) did. It was quite clear in her mind.
It's all relative I guess. I certainly wouldn't tell anyone else what to eat or not eat.
channa
I ate dog with my Vietnamese co-workers once when I lived in Hanoi, prepared in the traditional multi-course meal. I'm not a big meat lover in general but I thought it was DIS-gusting. Tasted like lamb or goat except instead of the barnyard odor it had a kennel odor. To be fair I wouldn't have liked any meat in most of the dishes - like cold sliced gelatinous meat, or blood sausage. It was a fun experience and I'm glad I did it, but it was the most difficult meal I've ever had to swallow.
My theory about the "virility foods" is that they're foods that might otherwise be considered less desirable - rats, lizards, dog and the like. But when meat is limited and people can't be picky, they make up legends about virility to make it more palatable. And combining the experience with drinking helps (with the virility and the fun.)
Bunny
It's easy to put down another culture's food preferences when you come from one that's always had plenty to eat, and more. Hell, we have so much food that a lot of it ends up in the garbage. Our PETS eat better than most of the world.
Don't get me wrong. I LOVE dogs. But I'm not so ignorant and full of myself that I'm going to go to a foreign country and tell their society (that's THOUSANDS of years older than mine) what they can or can't eat, ESPECIALLY when that country is much, much poorer than my own. That seems way more unethical to me than eating dog. That's like if India went to the Maasai in Africa (nomadic herders) and told them that they shouldn't slaughter cattle anymore because cows are sacred. It's like, "Cool, bros, what the hell else am I supposed to eat now? Dirt? Because we already do that."
The Vietnamese have experienced war and famine for like the past thousand years. Maybe a long time ago people just started eating dog because it's a cheap and abundant source of protein and they haven't stopped because they are sentimental about their food history.
This guy sounds like a prick. Does he even realize that being vegan is a lifestyle that only the privileged of the world can afford? The poor can't afford to not eat meat. They take what they can get. People who become vegans are able to make that choice because they never have to worry about pushing their brother into a landmine to get an extra handful of rice from mom. It's a stuck up way to live your life if you ask me.
Velops
Eating dog meat tends to be a touchy subject compared to other types of meat because of their history with humans. Dogs were originally domesticated to be work animals. Sled dogs were vital to the survival of the Inuit in the Artic. Many nomadic societies couldn't survive without dogs to assist in herding livestock.
wotten1
A big Amen to all those who say "eat and let eat"---cultural no-no's notwithstanding. I'm neither a dog nor cat lover (re: pets or food). I'd probably avoid most of the exotic dishes splashed across Andrew Zimmern's TV series and I'm not likely to say if you fly, pad on four, trot, swim or fit into a stockpot, you're mine!
I've watched nervously as a shift in the culinary landscape emerges--food's always been subject to change and now the changee is fish.
We've seen lists of Seafood to Avoid Ordering because their diminishing numbers in the world's oceans. Soon those listy eyes will focus on fresh water species. Due to a need for different fish to catch, greedy opportunists are offering to provide a two-fer: (1) eliminate predatory carp (bloated imported cousins of Gold Fish introduced many years) whose exploding numbers threaten entire eco systems and (2) introduce a new OK-to-catch fresh water fish--to eat!
They'd employ already carp infested lakes as fish farms and rather than reduce, would expand their numbers, harvest 'em to sell at an obscene profit to an ever-growing population of restaurant owners and chefs anxious to develop trendy new recipes and through shrewd marketing, convert a fish only recently viewed an enviromental disaster into a huge revenue stream--ah yes, sharp marketing in old school or today's internet/social networking venues--means a dough--a lotta dough--I can see it now
Carp! That other Chilean Seabass!
Andrea Nguyen
Thanks to all of you for your thoughtful responses.
Horse: Yes, they are consumed in other countries (Japan is one of them). No one talks about that.
Guinea pigs: Many Peruvians enjoy them.
Raising an animal for food is different than one as a pet. A dog is loyal by nature and I've been told that it looks very sad and scared right before being harvested. People have a special attachment to "man's best friend" but for those who eat dog meat, there's a clear line that they draw in their minds about pets vs. food.
Last week, I ran into a young girl who was raising a pig for the 2011 county fair. Her father was looking forward to the pork at the end of the line, but he said that the pig didn't have a name. The plucky girl said to her dad, "That's not true! I named her Rosie Posie." Rosie Posie the pig. Oink.
Diane
@Bunny: It is most certainly not true that the poor cannot afford not to eat meat. Millions of people all over India and worldwide (including the very poor) eat completely meat and egg-free diets. There are few vegans in India as that's kind of a US/Western thing. But most of very poor in South India, if they are Hindu, do NOT eat meat at all.
For the record, I am an omnivore and like meat in moderation. But meat is a luxury many places. And many people do not eat it at all. It is hardly required.
Sobaya
I never ate dogs in my life and nor am I interested but who am I to go to other country and lecture the people what to and what not to eat? I believe eating dogs has been a food culture in part of Asia for thousands of years. Would we listen if Indians come over to our country and tell us not to slaughter and eat cows because they are sacred animals? We probably laugh and tell them to go back to their country. Really, enough of the arrogance!
urinary track infection
Im not interested on tasting them. But im sure that kind of recipe is good on other meat.
InTolerant Chef
I choose not to eat dog meat or fertilized duck egg, my parents choose not to eat pork or shell fish. These preferences are usually culturally based. We had a butcher start selling horse meat in Perth Australia, and he was recieving death threats. Assuming any animal bred for consumption is hopefully treated ethically, I say 'eat and let eat'.
David A. Naess
If Lt. Col. Lucius is that queezy about different cultural practices, what is he doing working the Embassy circuit?
What really surprises me is that the State Department did not have him transferred as soon as he started making waves that could very well prove to be an embarassment to the Diplomatic Corps.
Anybody who has gone to an AUTHENTIC Asian restaurant has probably eaten dog or cat without being aware of it.
Andrea Nguyen
InTolerant Chef: I saw kangaroo meat listed on a butcher shop's wall in Australia. Horse doesn't seem out of whack. But understandably, no one wants to think of eating Mr. Ed.
David: A very insightful point about diplomatic service and the US State Department. Lucius seems to care deeply about this subject and willing to go out on a limb. I respect that in many regards.
Bobbielama
Well, in my own defense...and to save some of you the need to speculate further on my nefarious motives, I never said the Kairos Coalition project in Vietnam was aimed specifically at ending the dog meat trade. It is a humane education program that seeks to engage Vietnamese youth in discussions amongs themselves to explore the nature of cruelty and humane-ness within the context of their own normative culture, traditions, values and beliefs....using the themes of animal welfare, social justice and environmental protection. This is primarily done using varios theatrical techniques as a vehicle for facilitatng discourse. The program is run entirely by Vietnamese for Vietnamese. KC merely provides the funding and expertise when asked. You can find out more about the project at http://www.kairoscoalition.org. THis is my second project there since leaving my post at the Embassy...previously, I worked to provide services to elderly leprosy patients in remote areas...another group of individuals that society leaves to fend for itself...perhaps I should not have stuck my nose into that either...each nation handles its own people the way it chooses? You can learn more about the leprosy outreach project here: http://vimeo.com/6463735
Yes, I am a vegan and would be more than happy to see the dog meat trade end, just as I would be happy to see the slaughter of all animals used for food and clothing ended...both here and abroad, including pigs, chickens, cows, etc. Clearly, I am not a "cultural imperialist" as I am in some opposition to the normative culture of my own country as well. While I am pleasantly surprised at the vast numbers of Americans who have in the last decade taken on a patina of being "multicultural friendly"...at least when it involves a practice that doesn't peak their own sense of outrage, I think it should be pointed out that the world is becoming a much, much smaller place and we should not be afraid to engage each other in honest,frank and courteous dialogue about our cultures. Being afraid to partcipate in that conversation seems to me to simply be an abrogation of our responsibilities as members of the human family first and foremost before members of any clan, tribe or nation. I would hardly call myself queezy about foreign cultural practices, but there are some places I do draw the line and hope most would...for example,the exploitation, mutiliation or the killing of human beings, especially women, children,the elderly, minority groups or the infirm...and because I believe science has demonstrated conclusively the sentience (in varying amounts) of animals, I personally add them to the list of those I choose to defend. You may consider that a matter of culture, but I do not...any more than I consider honor killings, forced female genital mutilations, genocide and the like to matters for nations to decide for themselves.
On a final note, believe it or not members of Vietamese society are also not homogeneous it their values and beliefs....thus, there are many that are deeply involved in the program who actually share my views, and would like to see a more profound focus on animal welfare in Vietnam. A new era has dawned in Vietnam in the last fifteen years, spurred by peace and prosperity and now is the time for such questions to be debated. I, for one, am proud of the Vietnamese youth who are brave enough and bold enough to ask such questions and to dream of a more peaceful world...and I feel privilaged to support them any way I can.
Andrea Nguyen
Bobbielama: Thank you so very much for commenting on this post. I greatly appreciate your insights and glad to have you participate in this discussion!
dick
With apologies to Rufus Thomas... "If you don't know how to do it I'll show you how to wok the dog." Sorry, couldn't resist.
Andrea Nguyen
Dick: Very funny. Wok this way...
For all who are interested, here's Rufus Thomas singing "Walking the Dog"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6AZNywvF-s
Thanh-Viet
I have to admit that I ate dog meat one or two times: I was invited by locals in northwest Vietnam and when you are the primary guest, people fill your dish/bowl as sign of politeness. You just can't say no !
I am quite omnivore: half french, I eat snails, oysters, horse, rabbit, lamb, almost everything but brains (I don't like the taste, not the idea), and half vietnamese/thai (tai don), so I eat all the weird asian stuffs as duck eggs, Thit Canh Vit, duck legs, Mam Tom, etc... when in South Africa I ate some bugs too (some on my motorbike as well, but I had no intentions for these ones).
Eating dog was not on my list, as I like to pet dogs, and there are so many delicacies around.
The thing is Dog Meat is a delicacy in Vietnam, so you won't eat it by mistake. You have to pay the price, and it is easier to eat fake dog meat (hard beef) than eating dog meat just because they didn't have anything else to serve.
There are many stories about dogs: dogs bred only as food, not pet. But did you ever see an old dog in Sapa ? A lot of Hmong people pet their puppies, and then the sell them at the market place... they don't eat them, they sell them 🙂 Same for Thai, never seen an old dog in a village... Why ? They'll say that people from Hanoi are coming to the villages and pay a fortune 🙂 But in the meantime, you'll see dog meat on the markets, dogs in cages at the marketplace (even in the south, for the northern visitors they'll say).
Dog meat is a Vietnamese tradition... Roquefort and Foie Gras are some of the French ones, live eels are Japanese delicacy... Human race is omnivore, and some of them don't have a chance to pick what they want, so let them do !
Rosanna
I don't know how I feel about forcing my beliefs about what is okay and what isn't okay to eat on other countries and other cultures.
I do think that dogs were domesticated a long time ago to be man's best friend, and they are really loyal and sweet to their owners and I love them but I don't know it that is enough to justify telling other people what to eat.
blacklight
For the record, I am Viet American.
Consumption of dogs in East Asia most likely began when, during a time of famine, somebody noticed that dogs were producing litters twice as fast as pigs. I won't dig in any further and I'll leave it at that.
Having said that, (almost) no one in my family or extended family eats dog. On the other hand, we eat eggs with baby chicks in them - no apologies. While I haven't eaten any insets, I'd love to - I understand that insects are far more efficient a source of protein than animals higher up the evolutionary ladder such as chicken or beef or whatever. And what's wrong with eating insects means that fewer chickens, dogs, horses, pigs, etc. will be eaten?
Jonny
I really think people need to be empathetic towards other peoples customs and cultures. Some Vegans who are against eating meat and talk down to everyone else who enjoy it are no different than religious fanatics who want to call evil upon others who don't practice the way they do. It's important to understand that no matter what your pallate desires, there is someone, somewhere, eating something different that pleases them. Dog for all that it is worth is not on the top of my menu, however, when in rome do as the romans do; and if I were to visit vietnam I would enjoy a few rounds of scruffy with the best of them. We have to stop thinking that people who don't do what we do are lesser than we are. Who are we?!?! I am an American and I love culture. In fact I embrace it. My last point is to stop demonizing people who slaughter animals for food. There is no peaceful way to die. Lets get that fact clear. But there is the slow, painful, agonizing death that every other meat eater besides humans engage in and then there is the human way; quick and slightly painless. Bon appetit!!
Supra Footwear
TO TO TO TO .....NICE NICE WAY.....HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY LIFE.....
Office 2007
like to see a more profound focus on animal welfare in Vietnam. A new era has dawned in Vietnam in the last fifteen years, spurred by peace and prosperity and now is the time for such questions to be debated. I, for one, am
marlon
Some people are equally horrified by eating pork. Or beef. Both of which many Americans would smack our lips over and chow down on.
M
Who do a thing like this too inasent Puppy's Dogs Cats @ Kittens this has too stop! God will stop it for them God will see every thing is bran new he will fix so that those People will never do that agai! Any way if they do it too them lovely Pets well they will not in haters God Armageddon.
M
All the Vietnum People are gonna die when they eat Dogs @ Puppy's God will not give them a chance too hide.