This morning, Hong and Kim, the Vietnamese-Americans behind the terrific Ravenous Couple blog, alerted me to an interesting article in the Washington Post on upscale renditions of pho by non-Viet chefs. Staff journalist Tim Carman struts his pho knowledge in his thoughtful analysis of the chefs' efforts to present revamped version of the Vietnamese classic. Among the highlights of "Pho or faux? Area Chefs put their own spin on the Vietnamese noodle soup":
- Chef Nick Sharpe of the new Ba Bay restaurant makes a rendition that includes cuminy rice paddy herb (rau om) as a garnish. His first attempts didn't impress the Vietnamese Americans who own Ba Bay. But he subsequently sous vides rib eye, sears, and thinly slices it for each bowl. He doesn't serve pho with a garnish plate, which Carman sees as being unusual but that's how it pho is traditionally served. There is no fish sauce or charring of the aromatics in Bay Bay's pho recipe, which is part of the article.
- Esteemed and Beard award chef Michel Richard pulled his sablefish pho from the menu at Michel, a restaurant at the Ritz-Carlton Tysons Corner.
- Chef Haidar Karoum at Proof makes a pho terrine instead of a noodle soup. His veal-based terrine outsells the familiar pate de campagne (country pate) at the restaurant.
- Justin Bittner at Bar Pilar does a more or less regular pho based on a recipe from Secrets of the Red Lantern, a book by Pauline and Luke Nguyen based on their restaurant in Sydney. His beef broth includes daikon and sometimes chicken too.
What was also interesting about the Washington Post article were the comments that people wrote. Many of them directed readers to pho shops in the Viet hub at the Eden Center in Falls Church, Virginia. Others asked:
- Why do people have to tinker with something that's already perfect?
- What's wrong with revinventing a classic?
What are your thoughts? If you've experienced some of these new DC renditions, let us know your reactions. Or, if you have a tip of a favorite pho joint in DC or Virginia, weigh in.
I personally look forward to visiting DC and checking it out!
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Mzungu says
I can understand why chefs have to tinker with simple recipes. They cannot understand that something so simple tastes so good. They need to try and make it better in their eyes, but in most peoples it's just making something so simple and perfect less so.
I'm a bit of a traditionalist and like my pho the Hanoi way. A good stock, good selection of herbs, piping hot, small chairs and in a hole in the wall on the street. Now that's perfection.
Brendan says
I think you should check out http://www.laocook.com. It's a blog maintained by a Laotian chef base in spain. He does a lot of interesting things with classic Lao cuisine as well as some very traditional renditions. Laotians eat a lot of Pho and he has employed it in a number of different dishes.
I love Pho but I'm not offended by pho inspired dishes that evoke the flavors in new ways the way I am by fake dishes being passed off as Pho.
Diane says
I'm not very pho knowledgable, but I do admit to loving that side herb platter that some, but not all pho places provide. I know it's probably not authentic, but I love it. So, adding rice paddy herb sounds awesome to me!
Nate @ House of Annie says
I'll always crave a perfect bowl of pho but sometimes I'm willing to try something new - as long as it tastes good! If a chef understands what it is about pho that makes it good, then puts a new spin on it like that pho terrine, then more power to him!
Simon Bao says
Andrea, I'm enough of a Pho Progressive to welcome Chef Sharpe's use of sous-vide rib-eye beef, but a Traditionalist who dislikes Chef Sharpe insisting he'll garnish my bowl the way he wants it done. And I question the wisdom of Sharpe's recipe putting 10 culantro leaves in every diner's bowl.
I'm a Pho Progressive when it comes to duck, and embrace Duck Pho in the manner of Chef Smith at PS 7. Sounds like he is struggling with getting the broth right, which means he is struggling with Step One - but he's right to work with duck, and to use various cuts and preparations of duck meat for those bowls.
A "Pho Terrine" made with veal? As long as the flavors are strong and clear and evoke the pleasures of a bowl of Pho, then I welcome that as well. In fact, it makes me want to go play around making some terrines, I think it's a brilliant idea.
But I'm also a Die-Hard Pho Traditionalist when it comes to Seafood Pho, with or without sablefish. I love seafood soups, I love making and using seafood stocks, but I have yet to meet a seafood broth that could ever be worthy of the name "Pho." Eels are very gelatinous, and it might be possible to make a quite rich broth from those, and they are fatty and firm, which might make them quite suitable for use in a noodle soup. Eel Pho sounds like something I might well find in Vietnam. But I remain deeply skeptical of any Seafood Pho.
Michelle says
Mrph. I have a decided disconnect when it comes to "upscale" pho. I don't mean to imply that it can't or shouldn't be dressed up but more or less that it doesn't have to. I'm not nearly as much of a pho-fanatic as my husband (I swear, the guy has pho broth for blood and noodles for brains, sometimes) but even for me, pho is a dish to be experienced rather than just eaten. The customization of the bowl at the table, with just the amount of herb and sauces that you want, is all part of it. The idea of that being taken away to eat some chef's vision of what you should be eating... eck. Not to say that chef's vision might not be awesome (sous vide beef? Interesting...) but it's not pho at that point; it's "just" beef noodle soup IMHO.
Andrea Nguyen says
In Hanoi you sometimes get a bowl and few options for dressing it up. I actually grew up in a traditional household and my mom didn't allow lime, Sriracha or hoisin at the table for pho. If we had the meatballs in our soup, we could *maybe* have some hoisin.
It's really a matter of whether or not the pho tastes good. I was surprised that Sharpe didn't use fish sauce in his broth as that's elemental. So is the charring of the onion/shallot and ginger.
I hope that the end result of all these upscale non-Viet chefs souping up pho is that the mom-and-pop operations get more action and attention. I'd love to see people pay more for Vietnamese pho -- like they're willing to pay for Japanese ramen.
There is a lot of work and know-how that goes into making excellent pho. People should be rewarded for their craft.
Micol says
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Pissed off in L.A. says
That bastard child of Nick Sharpe and Pho looks so unappetizing. The color of the soup stock looks like somebody just dumb half a gallon of soy sauce into the pot and the sliced rare steak on top of the bowl looks as if it has recently been cut from the rump of a recently branded cow.
Diane says
My Father is a traditionalist and refuses to use sriracha or hoisin in his broth. Him and my cousins in VietNam think it's blasphemous to "poison" their beloved broth that took hours to prepare. " Why alter the valuable broth that took so much work to prepare with cheap bottled sauces?". They have a point.
And Father only eats mint with his Pho. He's so Northern. He would die if he found out people were making Pho with Duck or fish.
On the other hand, some of my brothers probably won't pass up a bowl of Pho, regardless of the stock base.
It's so interesting to see the perception toward traditional recipes. If Chefs start serving Pho with egg/flour based noodles, then I will call out "mutiny".
savuryandsweet says
i don't have a problem with people tinkering with a pho recipe per se, but i am on the fence about trying this place for fear of a disappointing bowl of pho is quite daunting. my family's favorite is pho 75 in falls church, golden cow across the street is a close second, a lot of my friends rave about pho sate. my brother and mother also make a mean pot of pho, each different but delicious. i'd love to join you for a dc-area vietnamese food tour, or at the very least hear about it!
Andrea Nguyen says
@Diane: You're my kind of woman. I like your dad. He's like my mom. There are varying perceptions on traditional recipes -- are they sacred or elastic? I feel that there's room for both.
Savuryandsweet: Thanks for the recommendations in Falls Church, VA! The DC area is on my list.
ShashaCatering says
I love vietnamese food. It alway low calorie. Tq for sharing. 😉
Linh-Dang says
I'm all for experimentation since it can only add, not detract from phở. Phở as it was made 120 odd years ago in Hanoi is still around and venerated, even with the popularity of its garnished Southern version, even with its popularity in the diaspora and places few Vietnamese have been to even.
Even though we made sure we could make a bowl of phở that could pass muster with our parents before we tried to put our own spin on it, I don't think that's a requirement for license to experiment. Phở after all was made by people who didn't know they were making phở, just finding ways to make the most of new ingredients (French beef, mostly) they found on their hands. Nowadays we have ingredients and techniques our forebears never dreamed of, so I'm excited to see what will come out of experiments by phở lovers around the world. For example, we like our results enough from sous vide cooking to plan on repeating the experiment - the meat has the full flavor of thịt chín and tenderness of thịt tái.
Alternately, if someone tried to pass off their creation as phở without at least doing some respectful research and due dilligence, we've seen how well that worked out.
There are just too many passionate phở lovers in the world for its legacy to be tarnished by experimentations.
anuran says
Chefs have to distinguish themselves from everyone else by coming up with something newer and better. Sometimes it works. But some problems are already solved. How to make kick-ass pho is one of those solved problems. Improving on it is like trying to improve on the wooden cooking spoon
Jenny @ Musings and Morsels says
Great post, Andrea (as usual). My mum's version of pho (she was born in Vietnam) interestingly doesn't include fish sauce ("too sour") or ginger ("too hot") - there's ample flavour and also a clean, smooth finish. I've always thought our version was as traditional as it could get but until recently, I discovered mum does quite a few spins on numerous Vietnamese dishes (for e.g. she doesn't use crab in the tomato-'crab' noodle soup; says she prefers not to use any canned crab meat). Still, it's what I grew up with and what I certainly prefer.
Quynh says
I am a traditionalist and a creature of habit, so its only Pho 75 in the DC area for me!
Also, I think seafood and vegetarian "pho" is just BLASPHEMOUS!
Enguyen says
Just stumbled onto your website and looked at your Pho Ga recipe and was very impressed with how authentic it is. I think what you did a great job encapsulating is the process and the detail to which making great pho broth requires, and as we all know, its all in the broth.
With that being said, there is a newer Pho joint in DC called Pho 14 which is VERY good. I would say maybe even better than the places in the Eden center; as a Vietnamese who grew up eating amazing Pho, its VERY good. Definitely give it a try when you are in the area. The place is small and always packed, but the Vietnamese people who run it do a great job.
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Jess says
My favorite MD/DC pho places: Pho14 / Pho75
DC Native says
My favorite Pho restaurants in the DC/MD/VA area (in order):
1. Pho 75 (several locations in VA and MD)
2. Pho Sate (Falls Church, VA)
3. Pho Viet (Washington, DC)
You should also check out the various delis and restaurants that serve banh mi during your trip to DC.
Ba Bay, Dickson Wine & Bar, BonMi, the Source, Proof, PS 7's and SUNdeVich to name a few.
Aside from all the places that I mentioned above, I would highly recommend going to Eden Center in Falls Church, VA - this is where Vietnamese-American community introduced Vietnamese cuisine to the DC area.
marlon says
They need to try and make it better in their eyes, but in most peoples it's just making something so simple and perfect less so.
marlon says
Sometimes it works. But some problems are already solved.